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Jun 26, 2020 · 23m · top-founders

ZigZag Hits $5m Revenue Helping Brands Like Gap Manage Returns

Al Gerrie · 10m spoken Nathan Latka · 9m spoken Eric Yuan · 4s spoken Vivek Bhaskaran · 2s spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this interview, Nathan Latka speaks with Al Gerrie, founder and CEO of ZigZag Global, exploring how the asset-light returns management platform grew to a £5 million annual run rate across 100 enterprise retail clients. Gerrie details the company's hybrid SaaS and transaction fee model, strategic partnership with Maersk, and capital-efficient expansion across global e-commerce supply chains.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 45.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 6.0 Guest teaching 2.4 Guest disagreement 2.1 Nathan pushing back 4.1
05100:0010:0020:000:00–3:12 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Preview: Integrating Returns Across E-Commerce Platforms Latka introduces the show and asks Gerrie to explain ZigZag's core value proposition and retail integrations. Gerrie explains how the SaaS platform connects retailers and carriers to manage returns data. The tone is introductory and collaborative.3:13–7:19 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Hybrid Monetization Structure and Annual Return Volume Growth Latka drills into the revenue split between pure SaaS subscription and per-return transaction fees. When Gerrie offers an overly broad annual contract range of 3,000 to 1,000,000 pounds, Latka pushes back to narrow down the actual sweet spot to 50k-100k.7:19–9:20 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Company Founding, Crowdfunding, and Asset-Light Team Architecture Latka reviews the founding history, Crowdcube crowdfunding, total equity raised, and team structure. Gerrie details their asset-light model and reseller strategy via carrier partnerships.9:21–12:54 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Churn Dynamics, Consumer Return Behaviors, and Net Revenue Retention Latka questions Gerrie on churn and expansion metrics. When Gerrie gives qualitative answers about account expansion across geographies, Latka steps in to explain standard SaaS expansion math to extract a 130-140% net revenue retention estimate.12:54–19:55 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Customer Acquisition Economics and Short Payback Durations A heated clash occurs after Gerrie reveals Maersk is investing but refuses to state the round size due to confidentiality. Latka repeatedly pushes back, arguing the numbers must be disclosed publicly on Companies House anyway, while Gerrie firmly demands Latka respect the embargo.19:56–22:07 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Dissecting Annual Run Rate and Pure SaaS vs Transactional Revenue Latka attempts to calculate ARR by multiplying 100 customers by the 50k ACV, forcing a clarification on whether the 50k figure represents pure SaaS or combined GMV transaction fees. Gerrie clarifies the blended model, concluding total run rate is around 5 million with 1.5 million in pure SaaS.22:07–23:39 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Summary Latka runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions and provides a concise financial recap of ZigZag's core unit economics and growth metrics.0:00–3:12 · Guest teaching 2/10 Preview: Integrating Returns Across E-Commerce Platforms Latka introduces the show and asks Gerrie to explain ZigZag's core value proposition and retail integrations. Gerrie explains how the SaaS platform connects retailers and carriers to manage returns data. The tone is introductory and collaborative.3:13–7:19 · Guest teaching 3/10 Hybrid Monetization Structure and Annual Return Volume Growth Latka drills into the revenue split between pure SaaS subscription and per-return transaction fees. When Gerrie offers an overly broad annual contract range of 3,000 to 1,000,000 pounds, Latka pushes back to narrow down the actual sweet spot to 50k-100k.7:19–9:20 · Guest teaching 2/10 Company Founding, Crowdfunding, and Asset-Light Team Architecture Latka reviews the founding history, Crowdcube crowdfunding, total equity raised, and team structure. Gerrie details their asset-light model and reseller strategy via carrier partnerships.9:21–12:54 · Guest teaching 2/10 Churn Dynamics, Consumer Return Behaviors, and Net Revenue Retention Latka questions Gerrie on churn and expansion metrics. When Gerrie gives qualitative answers about account expansion across geographies, Latka steps in to explain standard SaaS expansion math to extract a 130-140% net revenue retention estimate.12:54–19:55 · Guest teaching 3/10 Customer Acquisition Economics and Short Payback Durations A heated clash occurs after Gerrie reveals Maersk is investing but refuses to state the round size due to confidentiality. Latka repeatedly pushes back, arguing the numbers must be disclosed publicly on Companies House anyway, while Gerrie firmly demands Latka respect the embargo.19:56–22:07 · Guest teaching 4/10 Dissecting Annual Run Rate and Pure SaaS vs Transactional Revenue Latka attempts to calculate ARR by multiplying 100 customers by the 50k ACV, forcing a clarification on whether the 50k figure represents pure SaaS or combined GMV transaction fees. Gerrie clarifies the blended model, concluding total run rate is around 5 million with 1.5 million in pure SaaS.22:07–23:39 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Summary Latka runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions and provides a concise financial recap of ZigZag's core unit economics and growth metrics.0:00–3:12 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Preview: Integrating Returns Across E-Commerce Platforms Latka introduces the show and asks Gerrie to explain ZigZag's core value proposition and retail integrations. Gerrie explains how the SaaS platform connects retailers and carriers to manage returns data. The tone is introductory and collaborative.3:13–7:19 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Hybrid Monetization Structure and Annual Return Volume Growth Latka drills into the revenue split between pure SaaS subscription and per-return transaction fees. When Gerrie offers an overly broad annual contract range of 3,000 to 1,000,000 pounds, Latka pushes back to narrow down the actual sweet spot to 50k-100k.7:19–9:20 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Company Founding, Crowdfunding, and Asset-Light Team Architecture Latka reviews the founding history, Crowdcube crowdfunding, total equity raised, and team structure. Gerrie details their asset-light model and reseller strategy via carrier partnerships.9:21–12:54 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Churn Dynamics, Consumer Return Behaviors, and Net Revenue Retention Latka questions Gerrie on churn and expansion metrics. When Gerrie gives qualitative answers about account expansion across geographies, Latka steps in to explain standard SaaS expansion math to extract a 130-140% net revenue retention estimate.12:54–19:55 · Guest disagreement 7/10 Customer Acquisition Economics and Short Payback Durations A heated clash occurs after Gerrie reveals Maersk is investing but refuses to state the round size due to confidentiality. Latka repeatedly pushes back, arguing the numbers must be disclosed publicly on Companies House anyway, while Gerrie firmly demands Latka respect the embargo.19:56–22:07 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Dissecting Annual Run Rate and Pure SaaS vs Transactional Revenue Latka attempts to calculate ARR by multiplying 100 customers by the 50k ACV, forcing a clarification on whether the 50k figure represents pure SaaS or combined GMV transaction fees. Gerrie clarifies the blended model, concluding total run rate is around 5 million with 1.5 million in pure SaaS.22:07–23:39 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Summary Latka runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions and provides a concise financial recap of ZigZag's core unit economics and growth metrics.0:00–3:12 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Preview: Integrating Returns Across E-Commerce Platforms Latka introduces the show and asks Gerrie to explain ZigZag's core value proposition and retail integrations. Gerrie explains how the SaaS platform connects retailers and carriers to manage returns data. The tone is introductory and collaborative.3:13–7:19 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Hybrid Monetization Structure and Annual Return Volume Growth Latka drills into the revenue split between pure SaaS subscription and per-return transaction fees. When Gerrie offers an overly broad annual contract range of 3,000 to 1,000,000 pounds, Latka pushes back to narrow down the actual sweet spot to 50k-100k.7:19–9:20 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Company Founding, Crowdfunding, and Asset-Light Team Architecture Latka reviews the founding history, Crowdcube crowdfunding, total equity raised, and team structure. Gerrie details their asset-light model and reseller strategy via carrier partnerships.9:21–12:54 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Churn Dynamics, Consumer Return Behaviors, and Net Revenue Retention Latka questions Gerrie on churn and expansion metrics. When Gerrie gives qualitative answers about account expansion across geographies, Latka steps in to explain standard SaaS expansion math to extract a 130-140% net revenue retention estimate.12:54–19:55 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Customer Acquisition Economics and Short Payback Durations A heated clash occurs after Gerrie reveals Maersk is investing but refuses to state the round size due to confidentiality. Latka repeatedly pushes back, arguing the numbers must be disclosed publicly on Companies House anyway, while Gerrie firmly demands Latka respect the embargo.19:56–22:07 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Dissecting Annual Run Rate and Pure SaaS vs Transactional Revenue Latka attempts to calculate ARR by multiplying 100 customers by the 50k ACV, forcing a clarification on whether the 50k figure represents pure SaaS or combined GMV transaction fees. Gerrie clarifies the blended model, concluding total run rate is around 5 million with 1.5 million in pure SaaS.22:07–23:39 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Summary Latka runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions and provides a concise financial recap of ZigZag's core unit economics and growth metrics.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 55.8% · guest 44.2%0:00 · Nathan 55.8% · guest 44.2%3:00 · Nathan 36.6% · guest 63.4%3:00 · Nathan 36.6% · guest 63.4%6:00 · Nathan 29.4% · guest 70.6%6:00 · Nathan 29.4% · guest 70.6%9:00 · Nathan 32.1% · guest 67.9%9:00 · Nathan 32.1% · guest 67.9%12:00 · Nathan 43.3% · guest 56.7%12:00 · Nathan 43.3% · guest 56.7%15:00 · Nathan 52.7% · guest 47.3%15:00 · Nathan 52.7% · guest 47.3%18:00 · Nathan 51.9% · guest 48.1%18:00 · Nathan 51.9% · guest 48.1%21:00 · Nathan 62.7% · guest 37.3%21:00 · Nathan 62.7% · guest 37.3%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 17:07 Guest refuses to broadcast confidential investor figures

Gerrie firmly resists Latka's interrogation regarding the Maersk investment terms, explicitly asking Latka to respect investor confidentiality rather than broadcasting figures on the show.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 16:20 Host challenges guest on regulatory public filings

Latka directly challenges Gerrie's refusal to share funding figures, asserting that UK regulatory filings make hiding equity investments pointless and questioning why the guest is acting evasive.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 6:15 Guest details regional return variances

Gerrie educates Latka on complex retail dynamics, explaining how return rates vary dramatically between markets like the UK (25%) and Germany (70%).

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:20 Host demonstrates cohort-based SaaS expansion math

Latka demonstrates his SaaS expertise by correcting Gerrie's vague qualitative answer and walking him through how to calculate true net revenue retention on a percentage basis.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Preview: Integrating Returns Across E-Commerce Platforms 4201 Latka introduces the show and asks Gerrie to explain ZigZag's core value proposition and retail integrations. Gerrie explains how the SaaS platform connects retailers and carriers to manage returns data. The tone is introductory and collaborative.
Hybrid Monetization Structure and Annual Return Volume Growth 6325 Latka drills into the revenue split between pure SaaS subscription and per-return transaction fees. When Gerrie offers an overly broad annual contract range of 3,000 to 1,000,000 pounds, Latka pushes back to narrow down the actual sweet spot to 50k-100k.
Company Founding, Crowdfunding, and Asset-Light Team Architecture 5212 Latka reviews the founding history, Crowdcube crowdfunding, total equity raised, and team structure. Gerrie details their asset-light model and reseller strategy via carrier partnerships.
Churn Dynamics, Consumer Return Behaviors, and Net Revenue Retention 8226 Latka questions Gerrie on churn and expansion metrics. When Gerrie gives qualitative answers about account expansion across geographies, Latka steps in to explain standard SaaS expansion math to extract a 130-140% net revenue retention estimate.
Customer Acquisition Economics and Short Payback Durations 7378 A heated clash occurs after Gerrie reveals Maersk is investing but refuses to state the round size due to confidentiality. Latka repeatedly pushes back, arguing the numbers must be disclosed publicly on Companies House anyway, while Gerrie firmly demands Latka respect the embargo.
Dissecting Annual Run Rate and Pure SaaS vs Transactional Revenue 7436 Latka attempts to calculate ARR by multiplying 100 customers by the 50k ACV, forcing a clarification on whether the 50k figure represents pure SaaS or combined GMV transaction fees. Gerrie clarifies the blended model, concluding total run rate is around 5 million with 1.5 million in pure SaaS.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Summary 5101 Latka runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions and provides a concise financial recap of ZigZag's core unit economics and growth metrics.

Statements from this episode (15)

Assertion Partly supported
Gerrie: Fashion has highest return rate in retail
“Fashion has the highest returns. Percentage of all types of retail.”
Al Gerrie Jun 26, 2020 ▶ 2:57
Disclosure
Gerrie: ZigZag works with Topshop, Selfridges, Superdry, Gant
“And we're working with a number of different both national and international retailers like Topshop, Selfridges, Superdry, Gantt.”
Al Gerrie Jun 26, 2020 ▶ 3:02
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Gerrie: 30% of ZigZag revenue is recurring SaaS subscriptions
“The majority of our revenue is in transaction fees as we're growing every month with the more fees that we do. But about 30% of what we do is recurring.”
Al Gerrie Jun 26, 2020 ▶ 3:52
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Gerrie: ZigZag has roughly 100 total enterprise and retail customers
“You know, we've got about a hundred customers in total, but there are four different sizes.”
Al Gerrie Jun 26, 2020 ▶ 5:14
Assertion Supported
Gerrie: E-commerce return rates reach 25% in UK, 70% in Germany
“In somewhere like the UK that rates about 25% in Germany, There might be 70% returns rate,”
Al Gerrie Jun 26, 2020 ▶ 6:22
Disclosure
Gerrie: ZigZag spent around £1M building its MVP before launch
“I guess the region of a million pounds.”
Al Gerrie Jun 26, 2020 ▶ 7:37
Disclosure
Gerrie: ZigZag has raised over £5M in total funding
“So we've raised over five million today.”
Al Gerrie Jun 26, 2020 ▶ 8:11
Assertion Supported
Gerrie: ZigZag is totally asset-light with zero warehouses or vehicles
“We're totally asset light. So we don't own any vehicles. We don't own any warehouses. We're not a carrier.”
Al Gerrie Jun 26, 2020 ▶ 8:24
Disclosure
Gerrie: ZigZag uses under five sales reps, relying on carrier resellers
“So, we've got less than five sales reps, so we are quite light in, in that respect, and we work with partners, so, so we'll, we'll plug into somebody like DHL or Skynet, for instance, various large carriers. And leverage our technology and allow our partners t…”
Al Gerrie Jun 26, 2020 ▶ 8:56
Insight
Gerrie: E-commerce shoppers now routinely buy six items and return four
“Customer expectation has changed over the last few years from what was normal to maybe return a couple of items. Now it's normal to buy five or six items and return three or four.”
Al Gerrie Jun 26, 2020 ▶ 10:10
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Gerrie: ZigZag achieves 30% to 40% annual customer expansion revenue
“It's about 30 to 40%.”
Al Gerrie Jun 26, 2020 ▶ 12:46
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Gerrie: ZigZag retailers onboard in an hour to two weeks
“Technical onboarding takes anything from an hour to a couple of weeks, depending on the size of the retailer. So it can be very quick to get a retailer live and they're transactional within the first month.”
Al Gerrie Jun 26, 2020 ▶ 14:02
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Gerrie: ZigZag acquires customers for under 10% of annual contract value
“Less than 10%.”
Al Gerrie Jun 26, 2020 ▶ 14:28
Assertion Supported
Gerrie: Maersk has invested in ZigZag and joined its board
“So Maersk have invested in in Zigzag and also joined, joined the board as well.”
Al Gerrie Jun 26, 2020 ▶ 15:26
Disclosure
Gerrie: ZigZag revenue peaks a month after Black Friday
“Black Friday, obviously we will get the peak of Black Friday a month later because that's when people are returning.”
Al Gerrie Jun 26, 2020 ▶ 20:32
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