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Oct 8, 2020 · 20m · top-founders

Clickup Close To $34m in Revenue, Competing in Project Management Space with 300,000 Paid Seats

Zeb Evans · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken Eric Yuan · 4s spoken Vivek Bhaskaran · 2s spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

ClickUp founder and CEO Zeb Evans sits down with Nathan Latka to break down how the all-in-one productivity tool scaled to over $30 million in ARR and 300,000 paid seats through compounding organic SEO, aggressive weekly product releases, and a strategic $35 million Series A raise.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 44.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 6.4 Guest teaching 2.3 Guest disagreement 1.4 Nathan pushing back 3.1
05100:0010:0020:001:33–3:53 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Introducing Zeb Evans and ClickUp's All-in-One Platform Latka immediately probes into foundational SaaS metrics, differentiating between team accounts and individual seats. Evans explains ClickUp's broad horizontal use cases.3:55–6:34 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 From Craigslist Competitor to Organic SEO Machine Latka identifies and dissects the SEO playbook Evans used, specifically bidding and writing comparison articles on rival tools like Asana vs Trello.6:34–8:43 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Team Composition, SEO Longevity, and Core Pricing Latka cites exact third-party SEO data from Ahrefs for ClickUp's primary search keywords and evaluates their engineering and support headcount balance.8:44–11:49 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Building Enterprise Sales and Early Executive Personas Latka pushes back on the viability of deploying direct sales reps on low ARPU products, prompting Evans to explain how enterprise handholding drives expansion.11:51–14:30 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Raising $35M from Craft Ventures and Scaling Operations Latka calculates run-rate thresholds and digs into the trade-offs between bootstrapping for dividends versus taking VC growth capital from David Sacks.14:30–17:26 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Maintaining Low Churn, Friday Sprints, and Reverse Paywalls Latka demonstrates sharp domain expertise by immediately doing mental arithmetic on gross churn vs net revenue retention expansion, then pushes back on user backlash to reverse paywalls.17:26–20:11 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Blended CAC Dynamics and Long-Term IPO Ambitions Latka presses Evans on why he wouldn't sell out to an established competitor like monday.com, leading Evans to assert his commitment to taking ClickUp public.1:33–3:53 · Guest teaching 2/10 Introducing Zeb Evans and ClickUp's All-in-One Platform Latka immediately probes into foundational SaaS metrics, differentiating between team accounts and individual seats. Evans explains ClickUp's broad horizontal use cases.3:55–6:34 · Guest teaching 2/10 From Craigslist Competitor to Organic SEO Machine Latka identifies and dissects the SEO playbook Evans used, specifically bidding and writing comparison articles on rival tools like Asana vs Trello.6:34–8:43 · Guest teaching 2/10 Team Composition, SEO Longevity, and Core Pricing Latka cites exact third-party SEO data from Ahrefs for ClickUp's primary search keywords and evaluates their engineering and support headcount balance.8:44–11:49 · Guest teaching 3/10 Building Enterprise Sales and Early Executive Personas Latka pushes back on the viability of deploying direct sales reps on low ARPU products, prompting Evans to explain how enterprise handholding drives expansion.11:51–14:30 · Guest teaching 2/10 Raising $35M from Craft Ventures and Scaling Operations Latka calculates run-rate thresholds and digs into the trade-offs between bootstrapping for dividends versus taking VC growth capital from David Sacks.14:30–17:26 · Guest teaching 3/10 Maintaining Low Churn, Friday Sprints, and Reverse Paywalls Latka demonstrates sharp domain expertise by immediately doing mental arithmetic on gross churn vs net revenue retention expansion, then pushes back on user backlash to reverse paywalls.17:26–20:11 · Guest teaching 2/10 Blended CAC Dynamics and Long-Term IPO Ambitions Latka presses Evans on why he wouldn't sell out to an established competitor like monday.com, leading Evans to assert his commitment to taking ClickUp public.1:33–3:53 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Zeb Evans and ClickUp's All-in-One Platform Latka immediately probes into foundational SaaS metrics, differentiating between team accounts and individual seats. Evans explains ClickUp's broad horizontal use cases.3:55–6:34 · Guest disagreement 1/10 From Craigslist Competitor to Organic SEO Machine Latka identifies and dissects the SEO playbook Evans used, specifically bidding and writing comparison articles on rival tools like Asana vs Trello.6:34–8:43 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Team Composition, SEO Longevity, and Core Pricing Latka cites exact third-party SEO data from Ahrefs for ClickUp's primary search keywords and evaluates their engineering and support headcount balance.8:44–11:49 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Building Enterprise Sales and Early Executive Personas Latka pushes back on the viability of deploying direct sales reps on low ARPU products, prompting Evans to explain how enterprise handholding drives expansion.11:51–14:30 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Raising $35M from Craft Ventures and Scaling Operations Latka calculates run-rate thresholds and digs into the trade-offs between bootstrapping for dividends versus taking VC growth capital from David Sacks.14:30–17:26 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Maintaining Low Churn, Friday Sprints, and Reverse Paywalls Latka demonstrates sharp domain expertise by immediately doing mental arithmetic on gross churn vs net revenue retention expansion, then pushes back on user backlash to reverse paywalls.17:26–20:11 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Blended CAC Dynamics and Long-Term IPO Ambitions Latka presses Evans on why he wouldn't sell out to an established competitor like monday.com, leading Evans to assert his commitment to taking ClickUp public.1:33–3:53 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Zeb Evans and ClickUp's All-in-One Platform Latka immediately probes into foundational SaaS metrics, differentiating between team accounts and individual seats. Evans explains ClickUp's broad horizontal use cases.3:55–6:34 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 From Craigslist Competitor to Organic SEO Machine Latka identifies and dissects the SEO playbook Evans used, specifically bidding and writing comparison articles on rival tools like Asana vs Trello.6:34–8:43 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Team Composition, SEO Longevity, and Core Pricing Latka cites exact third-party SEO data from Ahrefs for ClickUp's primary search keywords and evaluates their engineering and support headcount balance.8:44–11:49 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Building Enterprise Sales and Early Executive Personas Latka pushes back on the viability of deploying direct sales reps on low ARPU products, prompting Evans to explain how enterprise handholding drives expansion.11:51–14:30 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Raising $35M from Craft Ventures and Scaling Operations Latka calculates run-rate thresholds and digs into the trade-offs between bootstrapping for dividends versus taking VC growth capital from David Sacks.14:30–17:26 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Maintaining Low Churn, Friday Sprints, and Reverse Paywalls Latka demonstrates sharp domain expertise by immediately doing mental arithmetic on gross churn vs net revenue retention expansion, then pushes back on user backlash to reverse paywalls.17:26–20:11 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Blended CAC Dynamics and Long-Term IPO Ambitions Latka presses Evans on why he wouldn't sell out to an established competitor like monday.com, leading Evans to assert his commitment to taking ClickUp public.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 66.6% · guest 33.4%0:00 · Nathan 66.6% · guest 33.4%3:00 · Nathan 29.4% · guest 70.6%3:00 · Nathan 29.4% · guest 70.6%6:00 · Nathan 47.5% · guest 52.5%6:00 · Nathan 47.5% · guest 52.5%9:00 · Nathan 55.7% · guest 44.3%9:00 · Nathan 55.7% · guest 44.3%12:00 · Nathan 38.8% · guest 61.2%12:00 · Nathan 38.8% · guest 61.2%15:00 · Nathan 28.4% · guest 71.6%15:00 · Nathan 28.4% · guest 71.6%18:00 · Nathan 43.4% · guest 56.6%18:00 · Nathan 43.4% · guest 56.6%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 18:50 Rejection of M&A exit framing

Evans flatly rejects Latka's suggestion of selling to monday.com, asserting he has zero interest in selling out and is determined to build an enduring public company.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 17:01 Pushback on reverse paywall friction

Latka directly confronts Evans on the risk of customer backlash when users get hooked on free features only to be unexpectedly hit by paywalls.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 16:12 Explaining the 100-use reverse paywall strategy

Evans educates Latka on product-led growth psychology, detailing how giving users 100 uses of premium features alters user behavior and drives natural upgrades.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 16:00 Latka's instant retention and churn decomposition

Latka rapidly calculates that with a 24% annual churn rate, ClickUp must be achieving roughly 75% expansion revenue across its base to support a 150% net retention rate.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Zeb Evans and ClickUp's All-in-One Platform 5212 Latka immediately probes into foundational SaaS metrics, differentiating between team accounts and individual seats. Evans explains ClickUp's broad horizontal use cases.
From Craigslist Competitor to Organic SEO Machine 6212 Latka identifies and dissects the SEO playbook Evans used, specifically bidding and writing comparison articles on rival tools like Asana vs Trello.
Team Composition, SEO Longevity, and Core Pricing 7212 Latka cites exact third-party SEO data from Ahrefs for ClickUp's primary search keywords and evaluates their engineering and support headcount balance.
Building Enterprise Sales and Early Executive Personas 6324 Latka pushes back on the viability of deploying direct sales reps on low ARPU products, prompting Evans to explain how enterprise handholding drives expansion.
Raising $35M from Craft Ventures and Scaling Operations 7213 Latka calculates run-rate thresholds and digs into the trade-offs between bootstrapping for dividends versus taking VC growth capital from David Sacks.
Maintaining Low Churn, Friday Sprints, and Reverse Paywalls 8325 Latka demonstrates sharp domain expertise by immediately doing mental arithmetic on gross churn vs net revenue retention expansion, then pushes back on user backlash to reverse paywalls.
Blended CAC Dynamics and Long-Term IPO Ambitions 6224 Latka presses Evans on why he wouldn't sell out to an established competitor like monday.com, leading Evans to assert his commitment to taking ClickUp public.

Statements from this episode (17)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
ClickUp had approximately 30,000 paying teams as of October 2020
“Yeah, we've got about 30,000 paying teams that use us today, and we've got about, I mean, we have a lot, we have a freemium product as well, so we have a lot of free users.”
Zeb Evans Oct 8, 2020 ▶ 2:39
Assertion Not checkable as stated
ClickUp averages approximately 10 seats per customer team
“So it's about 10 seats per team would be our average.”
Zeb Evans Oct 8, 2020 ▶ 3:01
Disclosure
ClickUp hijacked search by targeting competitor comparisons like Asana versus Trello
“I mean, I think we even did when people, you know, didn't know our name, they weren't searching ClickUp yet. So we did like a sauna verse Trello and just capitalize on those.”
Zeb Evans Oct 8, 2020 ▶ 6:13
Assertion Supported
ClickUp employs approximately 130 people
“We've got about a 130 people.”
Zeb Evans Oct 8, 2020 ▶ 7:38
Assertion Not checkable as stated
ClickUp relied entirely on organic user acquisition until mid-2020
“We were all organic until a few months ago, and then we started doing paid acquisition.”
Zeb Evans Oct 8, 2020 ▶ 7:57
Assertion Not checkable as stated
ClickUp's average revenue per seat is $10 to $15 monthly
“It's roughly 10, 10 to 15 dollars per seat per month becomes the average. So, I mean, the ARPU is like one 50 per per user.”
Zeb Evans Oct 8, 2020 ▶ 8:28
Disclosure
High-touch enterprise sales drive a significant portion of ClickUp's revenue
“I mean, I think that the reality is again, going back to, you know, this flexible platform that you have simple use cases, but also very complex use cases, the complex use cases takes a handholding process. And so, yeah, I mean, it's, it started off, you know,…”
Zeb Evans Oct 8, 2020 ▶ 9:24
Disclosure
ClickUp waited until $6M to $8M in revenue to hire sales leaders
“We were around just a few million dollars in revenue, probably a little bit more than that. I would say six, seven, eight million in revenue.”
Zeb Evans Oct 8, 2020 ▶ 9:53
Disclosure
Evans used a fake name on early ClickUp enterprise sales calls
“And I was you know, using a fake name to be the acting salesperson in some of the calls.”
Zeb Evans Oct 8, 2020 ▶ 10:00
Insight
Having the CEO run sales calls makes a startup appear too small
“You kind of appear small when the CEO is the person doing the sales and answering the question.”
Zeb Evans Oct 8, 2020 ▶ 10:24
Assertion Not checkable as stated
ClickUp approached $3M in monthly recurring revenue by October 2020
“We're a little bit less than that.”
Zeb Evans Oct 8, 2020 ▶ 12:02
Disclosure
ClickUp maintains a monthly gross churn rate between 1% and 2%
“We're under two percent monthly, one to two percent.”
Zeb Evans Oct 8, 2020 ▶ 14:39
Disclosure
ClickUp achieved an exceptional net revenue retention rate of roughly 150%
“We're like one 50.”
Zeb Evans Oct 8, 2020 ▶ 15:59
Disclosure
Business tier generates most revenue despite 95% of users starting on unlimited
“Our actual most revenue product is our middle tier, our business tier, which is kind of the premium one, but the vast majority of people, it's like, 95% of people start with the unlimited.”
Zeb Evans Oct 8, 2020 ▶ 16:15
Disclosure
ClickUp lets users try paywalled features 100 times before blocking access
“We do feature paywalls a little bit differently in the sense where everybody actually gets access to the feature that is paywalled, and they don't really know that it's paywalled until you kind of start using it. You get a hundred uses of every feature.”
Zeb Evans Oct 8, 2020 ▶ 16:25
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Evans: ClickUp acquires paying customers for as low as $1,000
“We can get customers for as low as like a thousand bucks paying customers for as low as a thousand bucks.”
Zeb Evans Oct 8, 2020 ▶ 17:39
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Approximately 95% of ClickUp's user base originates from organic channels
“About 95% of users are still organic”
Zeb Evans Oct 8, 2020 ▶ 18:04
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