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Nov 29, 2020 · 18m · top-founders

ToucanToco Raising Right Now $10m on $50m+ Pre with $5m in Revenue

Charles Miglietti · 7m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken Frank Bien · 4s spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Toucan Toco co-founder and CEO Charles Miglietti breaks down how his enterprise data storytelling platform scaled to $5 million in ARR with break-even profitability and outlines plans to raise a $10 million equity round to fuel US expansion.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 49.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.7 Guest teaching 2.3 Guest disagreement 1.3 Nathan pushing back 3.8
05100:0010:000:00–3:27 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Preview: Average Contract Size and Revenue Metrics Nathan drills into the customer profile, pricing tiers, and contract values, specifically verifying the 50K figure. Charles clarifies their focus on non-technical storytelling versus pure data exploration.3:28–7:16 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Upselling Mechanics, Customer Success, and Team Distribution Nathan presses on the mechanics of upselling and team quota structures, while Charles explains why CSMs handle expansion without strict individual sales quotas. Nathan redirects Charles when he initially misunderstands origin questions.7:16–10:47 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Bootstrapped Growth, Revenue Run Rate, and Profitability Nathan calculates cohort economics on the fly, breaking down gross churn and net revenue retention percentages. Charles confirms the underlying figures as Nathan structures the SaaS financial metrics.10:47–13:50 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Future Growth Drivers, Channel Partnerships, and US Expansion Nathan inquires about channel partners and pushes Charles on target fundraising numbers and valuation expectations for US expansion.13:53–16:42 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Capital Structure, Non-Dilutive Debt, and Venture Prospects Nathan probes into the 2.5M euro debt structure and why equity is needed rather than additional debt. Charles educates Nathan on French BPI debt limits tied to equity rather than MRR multiples.16:43–18:29 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Question Round Nathan conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five round, dealing with minor language misunderstandings before closing out with an accurate summary of company metrics.0:00–3:27 · Guest teaching 3/10 Preview: Average Contract Size and Revenue Metrics Nathan drills into the customer profile, pricing tiers, and contract values, specifically verifying the 50K figure. Charles clarifies their focus on non-technical storytelling versus pure data exploration.3:28–7:16 · Guest teaching 2/10 Upselling Mechanics, Customer Success, and Team Distribution Nathan presses on the mechanics of upselling and team quota structures, while Charles explains why CSMs handle expansion without strict individual sales quotas. Nathan redirects Charles when he initially misunderstands origin questions.7:16–10:47 · Guest teaching 2/10 Bootstrapped Growth, Revenue Run Rate, and Profitability Nathan calculates cohort economics on the fly, breaking down gross churn and net revenue retention percentages. Charles confirms the underlying figures as Nathan structures the SaaS financial metrics.10:47–13:50 · Guest teaching 2/10 Future Growth Drivers, Channel Partnerships, and US Expansion Nathan inquires about channel partners and pushes Charles on target fundraising numbers and valuation expectations for US expansion.13:53–16:42 · Guest teaching 4/10 Capital Structure, Non-Dilutive Debt, and Venture Prospects Nathan probes into the 2.5M euro debt structure and why equity is needed rather than additional debt. Charles educates Nathan on French BPI debt limits tied to equity rather than MRR multiples.16:43–18:29 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Question Round Nathan conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five round, dealing with minor language misunderstandings before closing out with an accurate summary of company metrics.0:00–3:27 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Preview: Average Contract Size and Revenue Metrics Nathan drills into the customer profile, pricing tiers, and contract values, specifically verifying the 50K figure. Charles clarifies their focus on non-technical storytelling versus pure data exploration.3:28–7:16 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Upselling Mechanics, Customer Success, and Team Distribution Nathan presses on the mechanics of upselling and team quota structures, while Charles explains why CSMs handle expansion without strict individual sales quotas. Nathan redirects Charles when he initially misunderstands origin questions.7:16–10:47 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Bootstrapped Growth, Revenue Run Rate, and Profitability Nathan calculates cohort economics on the fly, breaking down gross churn and net revenue retention percentages. Charles confirms the underlying figures as Nathan structures the SaaS financial metrics.10:47–13:50 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Future Growth Drivers, Channel Partnerships, and US Expansion Nathan inquires about channel partners and pushes Charles on target fundraising numbers and valuation expectations for US expansion.13:53–16:42 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Capital Structure, Non-Dilutive Debt, and Venture Prospects Nathan probes into the 2.5M euro debt structure and why equity is needed rather than additional debt. Charles educates Nathan on French BPI debt limits tied to equity rather than MRR multiples.16:43–18:29 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Question Round Nathan conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five round, dealing with minor language misunderstandings before closing out with an accurate summary of company metrics.0:00–3:27 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Preview: Average Contract Size and Revenue Metrics Nathan drills into the customer profile, pricing tiers, and contract values, specifically verifying the 50K figure. Charles clarifies their focus on non-technical storytelling versus pure data exploration.3:28–7:16 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Upselling Mechanics, Customer Success, and Team Distribution Nathan presses on the mechanics of upselling and team quota structures, while Charles explains why CSMs handle expansion without strict individual sales quotas. Nathan redirects Charles when he initially misunderstands origin questions.7:16–10:47 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Bootstrapped Growth, Revenue Run Rate, and Profitability Nathan calculates cohort economics on the fly, breaking down gross churn and net revenue retention percentages. Charles confirms the underlying figures as Nathan structures the SaaS financial metrics.10:47–13:50 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Future Growth Drivers, Channel Partnerships, and US Expansion Nathan inquires about channel partners and pushes Charles on target fundraising numbers and valuation expectations for US expansion.13:53–16:42 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Capital Structure, Non-Dilutive Debt, and Venture Prospects Nathan probes into the 2.5M euro debt structure and why equity is needed rather than additional debt. Charles educates Nathan on French BPI debt limits tied to equity rather than MRR multiples.16:43–18:29 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Question Round Nathan conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five round, dealing with minor language misunderstandings before closing out with an accurate summary of company metrics.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 63.3% · guest 36.7%0:00 · Nathan 63.3% · guest 36.7%3:00 · Nathan 35.2% · guest 64.8%3:00 · Nathan 35.2% · guest 64.8%6:00 · Nathan 30.5% · guest 69.5%6:00 · Nathan 30.5% · guest 69.5%9:00 · Nathan 40.3% · guest 59.7%9:00 · Nathan 40.3% · guest 59.7%12:00 · Nathan 75.3% · guest 24.7%12:00 · Nathan 75.3% · guest 24.7%15:00 · Nathan 44.7% · guest 55.3%15:00 · Nathan 44.7% · guest 55.3%18:00 · Nathan 95.2% · guest 4.8%18:00 · Nathan 95.2% · guest 4.8%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 4:25 CSM quota philosophy disagreement

Charles firmly pushes back on the premise of assigning quotas to CSMs, arguing instead that their focus must be adoption and retention.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 3:33 Nathan insists on specific upsell triggers

Nathan cuts through generalities to press Charles on exactly what triggers a tenfold increase in contract value from 50k to 500k.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 15:52 Charles corrects debt leverage mechanics

Charles corrects Nathan's assumption that public French BPI debt is loaned on MRR multiples, clarifying it is constrained by equity reserves.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 9:51 Nathan calculates cohort retention metrics

Nathan instantly converts raw numbers into precise SaaS metrics, formulating 5% churn and 30% expansion into a clean 125% net retention rate.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Preview: Average Contract Size and Revenue Metrics 5314 Nathan drills into the customer profile, pricing tiers, and contract values, specifically verifying the 50K figure. Charles clarifies their focus on non-technical storytelling versus pure data exploration.
Upselling Mechanics, Customer Success, and Team Distribution 6224 Nathan presses on the mechanics of upselling and team quota structures, while Charles explains why CSMs handle expansion without strict individual sales quotas. Nathan redirects Charles when he initially misunderstands origin questions.
Bootstrapped Growth, Revenue Run Rate, and Profitability 7215 Nathan calculates cohort economics on the fly, breaking down gross churn and net revenue retention percentages. Charles confirms the underlying figures as Nathan structures the SaaS financial metrics.
Future Growth Drivers, Channel Partnerships, and US Expansion 6213 Nathan inquires about channel partners and pushes Charles on target fundraising numbers and valuation expectations for US expansion.
Capital Structure, Non-Dilutive Debt, and Venture Prospects 6425 Nathan probes into the 2.5M euro debt structure and why equity is needed rather than additional debt. Charles educates Nathan on French BPI debt limits tied to equity rather than MRR multiples.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Question Round 4112 Nathan conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five round, dealing with minor language misunderstandings before closing out with an accurate summary of company metrics.

Statements from this episode (13)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Miglietti: Toucan Toco ASP Is €50K with Contracts Up to €500K
“The ASP is a 50 K euro today per year. And we have contracts ranging from 20 K to 500 K a year.”
Charles Miglietti Nov 29, 2020 ▶ 2:52
Disclosure
Toucan Toco Customer Success Managers Do Not Carry Sales Quotas
“No, that's a very good thing, because I have read a few things about CSM and Coda, and today we have decided that CSM should propose retention adoption and upselling. It's a nice collateral, and when they take a good opportunity, they ask for an account manage…”
Charles Miglietti Nov 29, 2020 ▶ 4:26
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Miglietti: Toucan Toco employs 70 people total
“It's a six, 70 people.”
Charles Miglietti Nov 29, 2020 ▶ 4:53
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Miglietti: Toucan Toco works with nearly 100 customers
“Today we are working with nearly 100 customers.”
Charles Miglietti Nov 29, 2020 ▶ 7:04
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Toucan Toco Reached $5M Recurring Revenue Without External Capital
“We are a five million recurring revenue business. Nathan Latka: How much? Charles Miglietti: Five million. Five million recurring revenue without any external capital.”
Charles Miglietti Nov 29, 2020 ▶ 8:01
Disclosure
Miglietti: Toucan Toco is break-even and reinvests all profits
“So yes, the company is profitable, breakeven, and then we invest all the benefits we have done in the previous years in today's world.”
Charles Miglietti Nov 29, 2020 ▶ 8:41
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Toucan Toco Sees 30% Upsells Across Its Customer Cohorts
“What I know is that our economy is 100 30% upsells. 30%. 30% on our course.”
Charles Miglietti Nov 29, 2020 ▶ 9:42
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Miglietti: Toucan Toco's average CAC is 40,000 euros
“Today the average cost of acquisition is 40 K, 40 K euro.”
Charles Miglietti Nov 29, 2020 ▶ 10:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Miglietti: Toucan Toco's CAC payback period is under one year
“If we add all the sales and marketing costs, which means that the payback is less than a year.”
Charles Miglietti Nov 29, 2020 ▶ 10:38
Disclosure
Miglietti: Toucan Toco Began Raising Capital for US Expansion
“Today we just started in the end of the summer of a raising term to go into the US because half of the software is built in the US and we need a partner to go into the US.”
Charles Miglietti Nov 29, 2020 ▶ 11:49
Assertion Supported
Miglietti Notes 2020 SaaS Multiples Between 10x and 15x ARR
“What I know is that in today's valuation, companies trade at between 10 and 15 times the ARR.”
Charles Miglietti Nov 29, 2020 ▶ 12:23
Disclosure
Miglietti: Toucan Toco has raised 2.5 million in debt
“Yeah, to until now we have raised 2.5 million in debt.”
Charles Miglietti Nov 29, 2020 ▶ 14:12
Disclosure
Toucan Toco Pitching Battery Ventures and FirstMark Capital for US Expansion
“Yeah, today we are in discussion with Battery, Battery Venture and First Mars Capital.”
Charles Miglietti Nov 29, 2020 ▶ 16:16
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