Jun 21, 2021 · 19m · top-founders

This Bootstrapped Startup Makes Crazy High $4.5m in Revenue Per Engineer

Will van der Sanden · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this interview, host Nathan Latka speaks with Dux-Soup founder Will van der Sanden about building a 100% bootstrapped LinkedIn automation SaaS that generates $4.5 million in annual revenue with an 80% profit margin and only one full-time software engineer.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 40.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.7 Guest teaching 1.6 Guest disagreement 1.7 Nathan pushing back 3.6
05100:0010:000:49–3:48 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Introducing Dux-Soup and Product Pricing Tiers Latka demonstrates familiarity with Dux-Soup's public pricing tiers and establishes baseline metrics like launch date and ARPU. The guest answers cooperatively without tension.3:48–7:25 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Customer Acquisition and Influencer Growth Strategy Latka pushes back when Will attributes top-of-funnel acquisition merely to pricing, demanding to know how traffic was generated. Latka then showcases marketing domain expertise by explaining John Nemo's backlink and content distribution strategy.7:26–9:30 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Revenue Run Rate and Bootstrap Milestones Latka rapidly calculates monthly recurring revenue and annual run rate based on customer count and ARPU. The conversation is collaborative and focused on bootstrap milestones.9:33–12:27 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Sole Ownership and Product-Led Growth Mechanics Latka probes the extreme lean engineering model upon discovering Will is the sole full-time engineer. Will explains his approach to managing freelance contractors on Upwork.12:27–14:44 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Analyzing Churn Dynamics and Monthly Conversions Latka challenges Will on a 5% monthly churn rate, pointing out that it equates to losing 60% of users annually. When Will attributes churn to job changes, Latka challenges why those users wouldn't repurchase at their next company.14:44–17:51 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Bootstrap Philosophy and 80% Profit Margins After Will notes an 80% profit margin on $375k MRR, Latka pushes past his vague answer about spending profits on family by calculating that $300k monthly cannot just be family expenses.17:57–19:35 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Will gives blunt non-answers to standard Famous Five questions regarding business books and CEOs. Latka quickly moves through the remaining questions to summarize the company's metrics.0:49–3:48 · Guest teaching 1/10 Introducing Dux-Soup and Product Pricing Tiers Latka demonstrates familiarity with Dux-Soup's public pricing tiers and establishes baseline metrics like launch date and ARPU. The guest answers cooperatively without tension.3:48–7:25 · Guest teaching 2/10 Customer Acquisition and Influencer Growth Strategy Latka pushes back when Will attributes top-of-funnel acquisition merely to pricing, demanding to know how traffic was generated. Latka then showcases marketing domain expertise by explaining John Nemo's backlink and content distribution strategy.7:26–9:30 · Guest teaching 1/10 Revenue Run Rate and Bootstrap Milestones Latka rapidly calculates monthly recurring revenue and annual run rate based on customer count and ARPU. The conversation is collaborative and focused on bootstrap milestones.9:33–12:27 · Guest teaching 2/10 Sole Ownership and Product-Led Growth Mechanics Latka probes the extreme lean engineering model upon discovering Will is the sole full-time engineer. Will explains his approach to managing freelance contractors on Upwork.12:27–14:44 · Guest teaching 3/10 Analyzing Churn Dynamics and Monthly Conversions Latka challenges Will on a 5% monthly churn rate, pointing out that it equates to losing 60% of users annually. When Will attributes churn to job changes, Latka challenges why those users wouldn't repurchase at their next company.14:44–17:51 · Guest teaching 1/10 Bootstrap Philosophy and 80% Profit Margins After Will notes an 80% profit margin on $375k MRR, Latka pushes past his vague answer about spending profits on family by calculating that $300k monthly cannot just be family expenses.17:57–19:35 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Will gives blunt non-answers to standard Famous Five questions regarding business books and CEOs. Latka quickly moves through the remaining questions to summarize the company's metrics.0:49–3:48 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Dux-Soup and Product Pricing Tiers Latka demonstrates familiarity with Dux-Soup's public pricing tiers and establishes baseline metrics like launch date and ARPU. The guest answers cooperatively without tension.3:48–7:25 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Customer Acquisition and Influencer Growth Strategy Latka pushes back when Will attributes top-of-funnel acquisition merely to pricing, demanding to know how traffic was generated. Latka then showcases marketing domain expertise by explaining John Nemo's backlink and content distribution strategy.7:26–9:30 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Revenue Run Rate and Bootstrap Milestones Latka rapidly calculates monthly recurring revenue and annual run rate based on customer count and ARPU. The conversation is collaborative and focused on bootstrap milestones.9:33–12:27 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sole Ownership and Product-Led Growth Mechanics Latka probes the extreme lean engineering model upon discovering Will is the sole full-time engineer. Will explains his approach to managing freelance contractors on Upwork.12:27–14:44 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Analyzing Churn Dynamics and Monthly Conversions Latka challenges Will on a 5% monthly churn rate, pointing out that it equates to losing 60% of users annually. When Will attributes churn to job changes, Latka challenges why those users wouldn't repurchase at their next company.14:44–17:51 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Bootstrap Philosophy and 80% Profit Margins After Will notes an 80% profit margin on $375k MRR, Latka pushes past his vague answer about spending profits on family by calculating that $300k monthly cannot just be family expenses.17:57–19:35 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Will gives blunt non-answers to standard Famous Five questions regarding business books and CEOs. Latka quickly moves through the remaining questions to summarize the company's metrics.0:49–3:48 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Introducing Dux-Soup and Product Pricing Tiers Latka demonstrates familiarity with Dux-Soup's public pricing tiers and establishes baseline metrics like launch date and ARPU. The guest answers cooperatively without tension.3:48–7:25 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Customer Acquisition and Influencer Growth Strategy Latka pushes back when Will attributes top-of-funnel acquisition merely to pricing, demanding to know how traffic was generated. Latka then showcases marketing domain expertise by explaining John Nemo's backlink and content distribution strategy.7:26–9:30 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Revenue Run Rate and Bootstrap Milestones Latka rapidly calculates monthly recurring revenue and annual run rate based on customer count and ARPU. The conversation is collaborative and focused on bootstrap milestones.9:33–12:27 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Sole Ownership and Product-Led Growth Mechanics Latka probes the extreme lean engineering model upon discovering Will is the sole full-time engineer. Will explains his approach to managing freelance contractors on Upwork.12:27–14:44 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Analyzing Churn Dynamics and Monthly Conversions Latka challenges Will on a 5% monthly churn rate, pointing out that it equates to losing 60% of users annually. When Will attributes churn to job changes, Latka challenges why those users wouldn't repurchase at their next company.14:44–17:51 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Bootstrap Philosophy and 80% Profit Margins After Will notes an 80% profit margin on $375k MRR, Latka pushes past his vague answer about spending profits on family by calculating that $300k monthly cannot just be family expenses.17:57–19:35 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Will gives blunt non-answers to standard Famous Five questions regarding business books and CEOs. Latka quickly moves through the remaining questions to summarize the company's metrics.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 47.3% · guest 52.7%0:00 · Nathan 47.3% · guest 52.7%3:00 · Nathan 22.4% · guest 77.6%3:00 · Nathan 22.4% · guest 77.6%6:00 · Nathan 53.1% · guest 46.9%6:00 · Nathan 53.1% · guest 46.9%9:00 · Nathan 37.8% · guest 62.2%9:00 · Nathan 37.8% · guest 62.2%12:00 · Nathan 30.6% · guest 69.4%12:00 · Nathan 30.6% · guest 69.4%15:00 · Nathan 45.1% · guest 54.9%15:00 · Nathan 45.1% · guest 54.9%18:00 · Nathan 56.2% · guest 43.8%18:00 · Nathan 56.2% · guest 43.8%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:06 Will rejects the assumption that churned users can be tracked across jobs

Will counters Latka's suggestion that users repurchase after changing jobs by explaining that they cannot link customer identities across companies.

Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 15:59 Latka rejects vague family expense explanation for $300k/mo profit

Latka points out the absurdity of claiming $300,000 in monthly net profit is just spent on family needs and insists on understanding Will's actual asset allocation.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:17 Will details direct management methodology for Upwork developers

Will explains why non-technical founders fail on Upwork and demonstrates how direct technical interviews and spec translation prevent bloated costs.

Nathan holds their own ▶ 6:33 Latka breaks down John Nemo's SEO backlink growth engine

Latka breaks down the underlying SEO mechanics and multi-outlet publishing strategy that enabled influencer John Nemo to drive massive referral traffic.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Dux-Soup and Product Pricing Tiers 5111 Latka demonstrates familiarity with Dux-Soup's public pricing tiers and establishes baseline metrics like launch date and ARPU. The guest answers cooperatively without tension.
Customer Acquisition and Influencer Growth Strategy 7225 Latka pushes back when Will attributes top-of-funnel acquisition merely to pricing, demanding to know how traffic was generated. Latka then showcases marketing domain expertise by explaining John Nemo's backlink and content distribution strategy.
Revenue Run Rate and Bootstrap Milestones 6112 Latka rapidly calculates monthly recurring revenue and annual run rate based on customer count and ARPU. The conversation is collaborative and focused on bootstrap milestones.
Sole Ownership and Product-Led Growth Mechanics 5213 Latka probes the extreme lean engineering model upon discovering Will is the sole full-time engineer. Will explains his approach to managing freelance contractors on Upwork.
Analyzing Churn Dynamics and Monthly Conversions 7337 Latka challenges Will on a 5% monthly churn rate, pointing out that it equates to losing 60% of users annually. When Will attributes churn to job changes, Latka challenges why those users wouldn't repurchase at their next company.
Bootstrap Philosophy and 80% Profit Margins 6126 After Will notes an 80% profit margin on $375k MRR, Latka pushes past his vague answer about spending profits on family by calculating that $300k monthly cannot just be family expenses.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 4121 Will gives blunt non-answers to standard Famous Five questions regarding business books and CEOs. Latka quickly moves through the remaining questions to summarize the company's metrics.

Statements from this episode (16)

Disclosure
Van der Sanden: Turbo Edition is Dux-Soup's fastest-growing package
“The fastest growing one is absolutely the Turbo Turbo Edition.”
Will van der Sanden Jun 21, 2021 ▶ 1:41
Disclosure
Van der Sanden: Dux-Soup ARPU is about $25 per user monthly
“The average is about 25 dollars a month per per user.”
Will van der Sanden Jun 21, 2021 ▶ 2:23
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Van der Sanden: Dux-Soup made around $1,500 in first-year revenue
“First year in revenue, that must have been around like 1500 dollars, I think.”
Will van der Sanden Jun 21, 2021 ▶ 2:34
Disclosure
Van der Sanden went full-time on Dux-Soup after 1.5 to 2 years
“After about a year and a half or two years, we saw revenue going up To the level that really the standard or the normal contracting could stop and I could focus full time on on Duxo.”
Will van der Sanden Jun 21, 2021 ▶ 3:24
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Dux-Soup counts 70,000 total users and 15,000 paying customers
“Today what we got, if you included the free ones 70,000. But if you, if you're looking at paid customers, we got about 15,000 customers.”
Will van der Sanden Jun 21, 2021 ▶ 3:52
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Dux-Soup paid influencer John Nemo zero to promote the platform
“Nothing at all, no, zero. He liked the way that the product works, he liked the way that it was priced, and we also got along at a personal level”
Will van der Sanden Jun 21, 2021 ▶ 7:08
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Van der Sanden: Dux-Soup forecasts breaking $400K MRR in 2021
“Well, that's definitely the forecast, yeah.”
Will van der Sanden Jun 21, 2021 ▶ 7:40
Disclosure
Van der Sanden: Dux-Soup is entirely self-funded with zero outside capital
“No, this is all self-funded. So there's no no bootstrap, no capital.”
Will van der Sanden Jun 21, 2021 ▶ 8:00
Disclosure
Van der Sanden confirms he owns 100% of Dux-Soup
“So you own a hundred percent of the business right now? [578] Will van der Sanden: Absolutely.”
Will van der Sanden Jun 21, 2021 ▶ 9:37
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Dux-Soup operates with only one software engineer: founder Will van der Sanden
“Well, I would say one.”
Will van der Sanden Jun 21, 2021 ▶ 10:46
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Van der Sanden: Dux-Soup experiences about 10% monthly churn
“The churn, we were at about 10%.”
Will van der Sanden Jun 21, 2021 ▶ 12:42
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Van der Sanden: Dux-Soup adds about 4,000 new users monthly
“We have about 4000 new users every month.”
Will van der Sanden Jun 21, 2021 ▶ 14:08
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Van der Sanden: About 20% of new Dux-Soup users convert to paid
“There would be about, I would say a fifth, probably.”
Will van der Sanden Jun 21, 2021 ▶ 14:33
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Van der Sanden: Dux-Soup maintains an 80% profit margin
“Well, I would say 80%.”
Will van der Sanden Jun 21, 2021 ▶ 15:34
Disclosure
Van der Sanden says an all-cash buyout would be hard to reject
“Catch in hand that would be very difficult to reject because I've got plenty of other ideas that I want to work on and try out.”
Will van der Sanden Jun 21, 2021 ▶ 17:10
Opinion
Latka: No software company exceeds $4.5 million in revenue per engineer
“If you look at revenue per engineer, it's through the roof. I don't think anyone breaks 4.5 million.”
Nathan Latka Jun 21, 2021 ▶ 19:27
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 2,600 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.