Dec 28, 2021 · 23m · top-founders
HealthTech Device Prevents COPD Patients from Hospital Visits, $9m Raised, 50 Devices Shipped
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Nathan Latka interviews Adi Berenson, co-founder and CEO of Clair Labs, discussing their contact-free bedside IoT device designed to monitor COPD patients, prevent costly hospitalizations, and capture Medicare remote patient monitoring reimbursements. Berenson outlines the company's technology, $9M seed funding, clinical trial progress, and planned 2023 commercial rollout following FDA clearance.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 39.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Nathan as informed peer 4.2 Guest teaching 3.6 Guest disagreement 3.1 Nathan pushing back 4.6
speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 16:09 Adi refuses to disclose dilution and rejects standard formulas
Adi firmly resists Nathan's questioning on dilution percentages and tells Nathan they should agree to disagree regarding startup equity rules.
Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 5:22 Nathan calls out revenue hedgingNathan cuts through Adi's reluctance to discuss current finances by bluntly telling him to just state that he is pre-revenue.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:51 Adi breaks down patient compliance limitations with wearablesAdi clearly refutes Nathan's comparison to consumer devices like Whoop by detailing how compliance fails among elderly chronic patients.
Nathan holds their own ▶ 16:09 Nathan lectures on dilution and founder controlNathan forcefully argues that dilution directly erodes operational control, calling it the most critical metric for early-stage founders.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Nathan as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Nathan pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Contact-Free Sensor Technology and Reimbursement Model | 4 | 6 | 1 | 2 | Adi explains the technical mechanics of non-contact infrared monitoring and the Medicare reimbursement model. Nathan asks clarifying operational questions about device costs and manufacturing. | |
| Clinical Trials and Remote Patient Monitoring Economics | 5 | 3 | 2 | 6 | Nathan presses Adi when he hesitates to discuss revenue numbers, pointing out that being in clinical trials simply means they are pre-revenue. Adi accepts the clarification and explains the RPM reimbursement math. | |
| Market Opportunity and Economics in COPD Management | 5 | 6 | 3 | 4 | Adi corrects Nathan's math on the total addressable market for COPD patients and outlines the economic cost savings of avoiding hospitalizations. Nathan calculates potential total system costs. | |
| Early Detection Efficacy Versus Consumer Wearables | 6 | 6 | 3 | 5 | Nathan challenges the necessity of a dedicated hardware unit by citing his own Whoop band. Adi educates him on patient compliance failure rates with elderly demographics using wearables. | |
| Sponsor Segment: Axios HQ and Founder Communication | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Following the sponsor read, Nathan challenges the friction of installing the hardware and having exposed skin. Adi strongly rejects the premise, clarifying the passive range of five to six feet. | |
| Funding Rounds, Team Composition, and Equity Dilution | 6 | 2 | 6 | 7 | Nathan pushes hard on dilution and equity retention, asserting that control is paramount. Adi pushes back and refuses to share specific ownership percentages, arguing there is no single startup playbook. | |
| PrimeSense Retrospective, FDA Clearance, and Strategic Partners | 5 | 3 | 5 | 7 | Nathan presses Adi to name specific ideal strategic investors, rejecting vague non-answers. Adi eventually lists target device manufacturers like Medtronic and Philips. | |
| The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions | 3 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Nathan conducts the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, gently redirecting Adi when he initially misunderstands the question about advice for 20-year-olds. | |
| Episode Conclusion and Key Metrics Summary | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Nathan delivers the outro monologue summarizing Claire Labs' technology, funding, and metrics. |
Statements from this episode (12)
Clair Labs originated from Adi Berenson's digital health work at Apple
“So actually it's all started from our work in Apple which I cannot get too much into it. So my background is coming from consumer electronics, but in my days in Apple, I got to work a bit with them on digital health projects. That was back in 2017.”
Clair Labs uses near-infrared to measure pulse and respiration contact-free
“And then by looking at your skin in two waves of near infrared, it can see movements of superficial arteries. So arteries that are very close to the surface by looking at those arteries, we see volumetric changes and we see tone changes. And then we are actual…”
Medicare and major payers reimburse Clair Labs' remote patient monitoring services
“The way it works, the business model, is that our customers are providers, our healthcare providers, and they are offering it under, I will call, an umbrella of RPM, remote patient monitoring services, which is reimbursed by Medicare and all major healthcare p…”
Remote patient monitoring programs generate $1,800 annually per chronic patient
“A chronic patient recognized as such under an RPM program can generate revenues for the care provider in the order of magnitude on of one 50 dollars per month. Made out of several components. So this is 1800 dollars per year.”
Clair Labs provides free devices and takes a cut of Medicare reimbursements
“We believe that we're going to get a big chunk of it. That's the business model. So we're not charging the provider for the device itself. We're actually getting recurrent revenues out of the reimbursements.”
The average COPD patient is hospitalized yearly at a $12,000 cost
“So an average COPD patient, which is diagnosed as such, is having an average incident of hospitalization at least once a year. And this hospitalization is costing 12,000 dollars.”
Clair Labs detects 95% of COPD hospitalizations seven to eight days early
“What we are showing is Is that we are raising the, an accurate alarm flag seven to eight days before very, I mean, in very high rates, like 95%, ok? 95% of the hospitalization cases of the clinical trials of the sample we sampled. We are showing a very obvious…”
Wearables fail for elderly patients due to charging and pairing noncompliance
“So number one problem with COPD patients, and with other chronic patients, especially elderly, is compliance. Everything that requires them to take action, which is charging, putting it back on, tolerating it even, pairing it with the phone, is Is, is going to…”
Clair Labs' contact-free device monitors sleeping patients from up to six feet
“Five to six feet. Not 10 feet. Up to six feet. It's enough.”
Clair Labs bootstrapped for one year before raising a $9M seed round
“We bootstrapped for a year and then we raised a seed round of nine million in two trenches in 2019 and 20 20.”
Adi Berenson and his technical co-founder split Clair Labs equity equally
“We are we're two co-founders. So my co-founder was working with me in Apple, and he's the brains behind the technology. He's a PhD in computer vision. He's one of the brightest minds in Israel in computer vision... Well, you should, but I'm lucky, so we're fif…”
Clair Labs expects to secure its first paying customer in early 2023
“Early 20 23. Yes. Wow. Yeah. I mean, it's a long, no, no, no. It's because you need in order to realistically, not realistically, in order to make business reimbursement based business, not out of pocket business, reimbursement based business in healthcare in …”