May 31, 2022 · 22m · top-founders

She saved equity, used dev shop for new PropTech SaaS, breaks $1m in revenue

Lily Liu · 12m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Nathan Latka interviews Lily Liu, founder and CEO of PropTech startup Pinata, exploring how the company scaled to 270,000 active rental units and near-$200,000 monthly recurring revenue through tenant rewards, credit reporting, and enterprise SaaS partnerships.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 35.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 3.8 Guest teaching 1.8 Guest disagreement 1.3 Nathan pushing back 3.0
05100:0010:0020:000:00–5:13 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Previewing Pinata's Growth and Revenue Calculations Latka immediately probes Pinata's business model and revenue splits, pushing on the percentage of revenue from brand partnerships (pressing from under 10% up to closer to 20%). Liu calmly reframes the dual-sided marketplace and explains the value proposition.5:14–8:44 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 SaaS Pricing Structure and Volume Discounting Latka clarifies the pricing tier and volume discounts for property managers, confirming how pricing scales below $1 per unit. Liu gives a clear breakdown of the packaging and origin story.8:44–10:50 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Building the MVP with an External Development Agency Latka explores team equity split and tech execution, clarifying that Liu hired an outside dev shop rather than having a technical co-founder on day one. Liu is straightforward and details the referral-based vetting process.10:53–13:55 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Sponsor Break: Flatfile Customer Data Onboarding Sponsor read by Latka for Flatfile. Host scores are 0 as it is a solo advertisement reading.13:55–16:30 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Scale, Platform Unit Count, and Revenue Trajectory Latka performs live math estimating revenue at $270k/mo based on 270,000 units, but Liu corrects him that revenue isn't quite at that level due to enterprise discounting. Latka presses on whether they will hit $200k/mo by year end.16:30–19:05 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Venture Funding Strategy: Seed and Series A Capital Latka cuts off a rambling operational answer to pin down the exact initial seed funding and Series A terms, estimating implied post-money valuation at around $100M based on standard dilution.19:06–21:40 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Team Structure and Internal Engineering Resources Rapid-fire Famous Five questions. Latka brings in context about ClickUp's ARR and valuation when Liu mentions the tool.21:40–22:18 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Episode Recap and Pinata Growth Summary Latka's closing monologue summarizing Pinata's operational metrics, funding, and growth trajectory. All host scores are 0 for monologue segments.0:00–5:13 · Guest teaching 3/10 Previewing Pinata's Growth and Revenue Calculations Latka immediately probes Pinata's business model and revenue splits, pushing on the percentage of revenue from brand partnerships (pressing from under 10% up to closer to 20%). Liu calmly reframes the dual-sided marketplace and explains the value proposition.5:14–8:44 · Guest teaching 2/10 SaaS Pricing Structure and Volume Discounting Latka clarifies the pricing tier and volume discounts for property managers, confirming how pricing scales below $1 per unit. Liu gives a clear breakdown of the packaging and origin story.8:44–10:50 · Guest teaching 2/10 Building the MVP with an External Development Agency Latka explores team equity split and tech execution, clarifying that Liu hired an outside dev shop rather than having a technical co-founder on day one. Liu is straightforward and details the referral-based vetting process.10:53–13:55 · Guest teaching 0/10 Sponsor Break: Flatfile Customer Data Onboarding Sponsor read by Latka for Flatfile. Host scores are 0 as it is a solo advertisement reading.13:55–16:30 · Guest teaching 4/10 Scale, Platform Unit Count, and Revenue Trajectory Latka performs live math estimating revenue at $270k/mo based on 270,000 units, but Liu corrects him that revenue isn't quite at that level due to enterprise discounting. Latka presses on whether they will hit $200k/mo by year end.16:30–19:05 · Guest teaching 2/10 Venture Funding Strategy: Seed and Series A Capital Latka cuts off a rambling operational answer to pin down the exact initial seed funding and Series A terms, estimating implied post-money valuation at around $100M based on standard dilution.19:06–21:40 · Guest teaching 1/10 Team Structure and Internal Engineering Resources Rapid-fire Famous Five questions. Latka brings in context about ClickUp's ARR and valuation when Liu mentions the tool.21:40–22:18 · Guest teaching 0/10 Episode Recap and Pinata Growth Summary Latka's closing monologue summarizing Pinata's operational metrics, funding, and growth trajectory. All host scores are 0 for monologue segments.0:00–5:13 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Previewing Pinata's Growth and Revenue Calculations Latka immediately probes Pinata's business model and revenue splits, pushing on the percentage of revenue from brand partnerships (pressing from under 10% up to closer to 20%). Liu calmly reframes the dual-sided marketplace and explains the value proposition.5:14–8:44 · Guest disagreement 1/10 SaaS Pricing Structure and Volume Discounting Latka clarifies the pricing tier and volume discounts for property managers, confirming how pricing scales below $1 per unit. Liu gives a clear breakdown of the packaging and origin story.8:44–10:50 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Building the MVP with an External Development Agency Latka explores team equity split and tech execution, clarifying that Liu hired an outside dev shop rather than having a technical co-founder on day one. Liu is straightforward and details the referral-based vetting process.10:53–13:55 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Sponsor Break: Flatfile Customer Data Onboarding Sponsor read by Latka for Flatfile. Host scores are 0 as it is a solo advertisement reading.13:55–16:30 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Scale, Platform Unit Count, and Revenue Trajectory Latka performs live math estimating revenue at $270k/mo based on 270,000 units, but Liu corrects him that revenue isn't quite at that level due to enterprise discounting. Latka presses on whether they will hit $200k/mo by year end.16:30–19:05 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Venture Funding Strategy: Seed and Series A Capital Latka cuts off a rambling operational answer to pin down the exact initial seed funding and Series A terms, estimating implied post-money valuation at around $100M based on standard dilution.19:06–21:40 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Team Structure and Internal Engineering Resources Rapid-fire Famous Five questions. Latka brings in context about ClickUp's ARR and valuation when Liu mentions the tool.21:40–22:18 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Episode Recap and Pinata Growth Summary Latka's closing monologue summarizing Pinata's operational metrics, funding, and growth trajectory. All host scores are 0 for monologue segments.0:00–5:13 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Previewing Pinata's Growth and Revenue Calculations Latka immediately probes Pinata's business model and revenue splits, pushing on the percentage of revenue from brand partnerships (pressing from under 10% up to closer to 20%). Liu calmly reframes the dual-sided marketplace and explains the value proposition.5:14–8:44 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 SaaS Pricing Structure and Volume Discounting Latka clarifies the pricing tier and volume discounts for property managers, confirming how pricing scales below $1 per unit. Liu gives a clear breakdown of the packaging and origin story.8:44–10:50 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Building the MVP with an External Development Agency Latka explores team equity split and tech execution, clarifying that Liu hired an outside dev shop rather than having a technical co-founder on day one. Liu is straightforward and details the referral-based vetting process.10:53–13:55 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Sponsor Break: Flatfile Customer Data Onboarding Sponsor read by Latka for Flatfile. Host scores are 0 as it is a solo advertisement reading.13:55–16:30 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Scale, Platform Unit Count, and Revenue Trajectory Latka performs live math estimating revenue at $270k/mo based on 270,000 units, but Liu corrects him that revenue isn't quite at that level due to enterprise discounting. Latka presses on whether they will hit $200k/mo by year end.16:30–19:05 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Venture Funding Strategy: Seed and Series A Capital Latka cuts off a rambling operational answer to pin down the exact initial seed funding and Series A terms, estimating implied post-money valuation at around $100M based on standard dilution.19:06–21:40 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Team Structure and Internal Engineering Resources Rapid-fire Famous Five questions. Latka brings in context about ClickUp's ARR and valuation when Liu mentions the tool.21:40–22:18 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Episode Recap and Pinata Growth Summary Latka's closing monologue summarizing Pinata's operational metrics, funding, and growth trajectory. All host scores are 0 for monologue segments.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 39% · guest 61%0:00 · Nathan 39% · guest 61%3:00 · Nathan 26.1% · guest 73.9%3:00 · Nathan 26.1% · guest 73.9%6:00 · Nathan 19.1% · guest 80.9%6:00 · Nathan 19.1% · guest 80.9%9:00 · Nathan 52.1% · guest 47.9%9:00 · Nathan 52.1% · guest 47.9%12:00 · Nathan 30.5% · guest 69.5%12:00 · Nathan 30.5% · guest 69.5%15:00 · Nathan 36.5% · guest 63.5%15:00 · Nathan 36.5% · guest 63.5%18:00 · Nathan 32% · guest 68%18:00 · Nathan 32% · guest 68%21:00 · Nathan 66.7% · guest 33.3%21:00 · Nathan 66.7% · guest 33.3%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 15:41 Liu resists revenue milestone prediction

Liu repeatedly deflects Latka's direct question about whether they will hit $200k/month by December, insisting on keeping the focus strictly on unit counts rather than hard revenue targets.

Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 17:09 Latka cuts off pivot to demand funding numbers

Latka interrupts Liu's explanation of sales processes to redirect her back to the core question of how the business was funded in its first 12 months.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 15:01 Liu corrects Latka's simple revenue multiplication

Liu checks Latka's assumption that 270,000 units multiplied by $1 yields $270k/month in revenue, clarifying that large portfolio discounting lowers the real average rate.

Nathan holds their own ▶ 18:34 Latka deduces implied valuation from Series A dilution

Latka uses industry dilution benchmarks to immediately deduce and state Pinata's implied valuation range (~$100M) after Liu confirms raising $13M at standard Series A dilution.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Previewing Pinata's Growth and Revenue Calculations 5324 Latka immediately probes Pinata's business model and revenue splits, pushing on the percentage of revenue from brand partnerships (pressing from under 10% up to closer to 20%). Liu calmly reframes the dual-sided marketplace and explains the value proposition.
SaaS Pricing Structure and Volume Discounting 4213 Latka clarifies the pricing tier and volume discounts for property managers, confirming how pricing scales below $1 per unit. Liu gives a clear breakdown of the packaging and origin story.
Building the MVP with an External Development Agency 5214 Latka explores team equity split and tech execution, clarifying that Liu hired an outside dev shop rather than having a technical co-founder on day one. Liu is straightforward and details the referral-based vetting process.
Sponsor Break: Flatfile Customer Data Onboarding 0000 Sponsor read by Latka for Flatfile. Host scores are 0 as it is a solo advertisement reading.
Scale, Platform Unit Count, and Revenue Trajectory 6436 Latka performs live math estimating revenue at $270k/mo based on 270,000 units, but Liu corrects him that revenue isn't quite at that level due to enterprise discounting. Latka presses on whether they will hit $200k/mo by year end.
Venture Funding Strategy: Seed and Series A Capital 6225 Latka cuts off a rambling operational answer to pin down the exact initial seed funding and Series A terms, estimating implied post-money valuation at around $100M based on standard dilution.
Team Structure and Internal Engineering Resources 4112 Rapid-fire Famous Five questions. Latka brings in context about ClickUp's ARR and valuation when Liu mentions the tool.
Episode Recap and Pinata Growth Summary 0000 Latka's closing monologue summarizing Pinata's operational metrics, funding, and growth trajectory. All host scores are 0 for monologue segments.

Statements from this episode (11)

Disclosure
Brand partnerships generate roughly 20% of Pinata's total revenue
“Closer to about 20.”
Lily Liu May 31, 2022 ▶ 4:43
Disclosure
Pinata charges property managers starting at $1 per unit monthly
“So it starts at a dollar per unit per month. Now that price Will vary based on the actual product offering that they want to expose to their renters and the unit size.”
Lily Liu May 31, 2022 ▶ 5:28
Disclosure
Pinata built its initial MVP using an external development shop
“You know, we actually found a development partner. And so we, you know, we basically iterated on that MVP initially with a development partner.”
Lily Liu May 31, 2022 ▶ 10:01
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Pinata's first customer managed a portfolio of nearly 5,000 units
“It was about a little less than 5000 units and they were going to phase in their portfolio.”
Lily Liu May 31, 2022 ▶ 13:18
Insight
B2B enterprise sales remain brutally hard even for free software
“And so I remember that, but again, even if it's free, it's still a difficult sales process when you're doing a B to B sale.”
Lily Liu May 31, 2022 ▶ 13:37
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Pinata scaled to over 600 property management companies
“Yeah, so we have over 600 property management companies on the platform today.”
Lily Liu May 31, 2022 ▶ 13:50
Assertion Supported
Small-to-medium operators own two-thirds of US rental units
“In the market right now, about two thirds of rental units are owned by small to medium shops, not the large institutional groups you often think about, the Gray Star, the Avalon Bays, and they actually don't represent the majority of rental units in the US rig…”
Lily Liu May 31, 2022 ▶ 13:59
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Pinata reached 270,000 active renters on its platform
“I think we're Hovering around 270 ish renter, 270,000 renters. And these are renters that have been entered into our platform. So that does not account for the full portfolio size of some of our groups, knowing that our groups again will go in pilots.”
Lily Liu May 31, 2022 ▶ 14:34
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Pinata generated zero revenue during its 2021 pilot testing phase
“So about a year ago, early if we rewind early, 20, 21, we actually were not generating any revenue. And so we were Just coming off of that pilot phase where we weren't charging property management companies anything to use our platform. We were really running …”
Lily Liu May 31, 2022 ▶ 15:17
Assertion Supported
Pinata raised a $13 million Series A in early 2022
“So that was a thirteen million dollar round.”
Lily Liu May 31, 2022 ▶ 17:51
Disclosure
Pinata operates with a lean team of around 20 employees
“So we have just around 20 folks on the team right now.”
Lily Liu May 31, 2022 ▶ 19:11
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