Jul 6, 2022 · 22m · top-founders
SaaS company and want to move into payments? Justifi helps you do it fast. Almost $5b in platform GMV across 36 customers today.
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this interview with Nathan Latka, Justifi CEO Joe Keeley explains how his company combines modular payment infrastructure with hands-on fintech coaching to help vertical SaaS platforms capture over 200 basis points of revenue across nearly $5 billion in GMV. Backed by $10.6 million in seed funding, Justifi enables software founders to expand customer wallet share and dramatically increase company valuations through embedded financial services.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 34.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Nathan as informed peer 6.4 Guest teaching 2.1 Guest disagreement 1.1 Nathan pushing back 1.6
speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 4:48 Joe counters macroeconomic slowdown premise
Joe politely pushes back on Nathan's suggestion that VC contraction will slow payment adoption, arguing instead that it accelerates embedded monetization of existing customers.
Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 18:13 Nathan drills into Series A vs. Seed funding round distinctionNathan specifically presses whether the newest round was a priced Series A or seed continuation, requiring Joe to clarify it was an extension.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 8:52 Joe explains modular adoption of Insights and Engage without full migrationJoe educates Nathan on enterprise sales patterns, revealing large platforms often adopt analytics and LMS coaching modules first before doing a heavy core tech migration.
Nathan holds their own ▶ 20:20 Nathan calculates exact run-rate economics on $5B GMVNathan demonstrates financial mastery by calculating the exact downstream SaaS and platform economics (20 bps on $5B yielding $10M ARR) from Justifi's take rate.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Nathan as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Nathan pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Introducing Joe Keeley and Justifi Technologies | 6 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Nathan introduces Joe and contextualizes Justifi within the payment infrastructure landscape (Stripe, Paddle, Chargebee) and managed service models like Arctic Wolf. Joe explains their positioning as custom connect infrastructure paired with human talent. | |
| Expanding Wallet Share in a Constrained Market | 6 | 2 | 2 | 2 | Nathan asks if market downturns will slow embedded payments adoption, but Joe counters that tighter capital markets actually accelerate vertical SaaS monetizing payments and lending to increase wallet share. | |
| Breakdown of the 200 Basis Point Economic Model | 7 | 2 | 1 | 2 | Nathan lays out a concrete construction-SaaS hypothetical to test the math, and Joe elaborates on unlocking 200 bps for the customer while Justifi captures 5 to 20 bps on top. Nathan clarifies and confirms the exact take-rate breakdown. | |
| Justifi's Modular Offerings: Insights, Engage, and Core Tech | 6 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Nathan asks about professional services retention cohorts, prompting Joe to break down Justifi's modular architecture: Insights (analytics SaaS), Engage (LMS/coaching), and Core Tech. Joe details his and his co-founder's vertical SaaS background. | |
| Founderpath Valuation Tool Mid-Roll Promotion | 5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Begins with a Founderpath mid-roll advertisement read by Nathan, transitioning at 12:07 to interviewing Joe about initial customer acquisition timelines and client stage distributions. | |
| Assessing Platform Scale and GMV Thresholds | 7 | 2 | 1 | 2 | Nathan tests GMV minimums and calculates hypothetical unlocked revenue across $3B-$5B GMV at 200 bps ($60M+ value). Joe agrees with Nathan's valuation multiple logic (3x-10x) for platforms monetizing transactions. | |
| Venture Backing and the $10.6M Seed Round | 6 | 2 | 1 | 2 | Nathan drills into funding mechanics, asking if the recent round was a Series A, which Joe clarifies was a $4M extension bringing the total Seed round to $10.6M. Nathan then breaks down team headcount allocations. | |
| Migration Mechanics and Projected Run-Rate Economics | 8 | 1 | 1 | 2 | Nathan models Justifi's long-term business economics: 20 bps take-rate on $5B GMV equaling a $10M run rate, which Joe confirms as directionally correct before wrapping with the rapid-fire questions. |
Statements from this episode (16)
Keeley: Justifi operates like Stripe Custom Connect without extra development
“I think if you think about us as like a Stripe custom connect with for vertical SaaS platforms where they don't have to build all this stuff on top of it to get the best economics.”
Keeley: Vertical SaaS payment infrastructure is rapidly becoming commoditized
“Payment infrastructure for vertical SaaS that allows them to monetize payments. And very quickly, you're seeing that become, frankly, not that unique. There are a number of folks that are out there to do that.”
Keeley: Embedded Fintech Adoption Requires Human Support Beyond APIs
“We think that it takes more than just an API. You have to have a really good API, but I think Putting a team around things to achieve the goals. We shouldn't forget that it takes a lot of a lot of talent as well to win.”
Keeley: Venture downturns will accelerate vertical SaaS adoption of embedded fintech
“Well, I think it's going to accelerate because let's say that there are venture dollars are reserved.”
Keeley: Vertical SaaS Valuations Depend on Customer Stickiness and Wallet Depth
“At the end of the day, even if pre-money gets compressed and other things, it's going to be a vertical SaaS platform is going to be judged on You know, the stickiness of their customer and how deep they can go with those customers.”
Keeley: Justifi targets 5 to 20 basis points above clients' 200
“Our goal is to first try to make get the platform, those 200 basis points plus. And then if we can make, you know, five or 10 or 20 basis points in addition to that as being that true deep partner”
Keeley: Small Vertical SaaS Platforms Can Quickly Reach $50M-$200M in GMV
“Vertical SaaS platforms and software sort of eating the world is that very quickly a small platform can see funds flow of 50 to two hundred million dollars.”
Latka: Charging setup fees almost always yields higher net dollar retention
“I think it's really important when you look at cohort analysis in terms of net dollar retention on folks that have done and paid you for services. It's always higher, almost always higher than folks that don't pay that setup fee or don't pay the service fee as…”
Keeley: Large Platforms Buy Justifi Insights and Coaching Before Migrating Tech
“We have some very large platforms that are just purchasing insights and engage right now, because on the roadmap, it's not the time to do a migration.”
Keeley: SportsEngine generated 85% of its revenue from embedded fintech tools
“Sports Engine is a vertical SaaS platform that Provided these software tools for youth sports teams, and it turns out that hockey and soccer is really expensive because they processed about four billion dollars, and they built this sort of, this fintech stack …”
Keeley: Justifi is in production with a couple dozen platforms
“We brought our first platforms on, you know, in the late summer of 20 and we're in production with a couple dozen platforms today”
Keeley: Justifi works with multiple platforms with over $1 billion in GMV
“And then we have a platform, a couple of platforms that are over a billion that we're working with.”
Keeley: Very large software platforms are often unsophisticated in payments
“Sometimes very large platforms aren't necessarily depending on when they were founded and what kind of payment stack they have. They're not necessarily that much more sophisticated sometimes in, in the payments game.”
Keeley: Embedded fintech can increase vertical SaaS platform valuations 3x to 10x
“We really have a lens on the world that says vertical SaaS platforms are literally worth three to five to 10 times more if this strategy is implemented well with the right technology”