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Jul 29, 2022 · 16m · top-founders

What you can learn from Vista Equity's former head of pricing

Marcos Rivera · 8m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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Former Vista Equity head of pricing and Pricing.io founder Marcos Rivera breaks down actionable monetization frameworks, agile consulting models, and how net revenue retention drives multi-million dollar SaaS valuations.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 40.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.6 Guest teaching 4.0 Guest disagreement 1.2 Nathan pushing back 2.6
05100:0010:002:17–5:21 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Pricing.io Service Packages and SaaS Pricing Competitive Landscape Nathan names major industry competitors like ProfitWell and Price Intelligently while digging into Marcos's engagement pricing tiers. Marcos explains his sprint project model and clarifies what enterprise consultancies versus specialized agencies charge.5:21–7:39 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Step-by-Step SaaS Pricing Optimization Methodology Marcos outlines his step-by-step methodology for pricing SaaS products, moving from growth objectives and customer maturity curves to price envelopes. Nathan listens closely and prompts Marcos to define technical jargon like 'pricing envelope'.7:42–11:03 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Sponsor Break: Rocketlane Collaborative Customer Onboarding Nathan showcases his familiarity with Vista Equity's portfolio and poses a technical M&A question regarding pricing optimization post-acquisition. Marcos reframes PE as 'potential equity' and details how NRR optimization drives valuation multiples.11:04–14:09 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Pricing.io Team Composition, Client Scale, and Revenue Metrics Nathan performs rapid revenue math based on client count and pushes Marcos on his agency run rate and book advance strategy. Marcos corrects the revenue assumptions by noting mini-engagements for early-stage startups and clarifies his self-publishing choice.14:09–16:08 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions and attempts to get Marcos to reveal confidential Vista Equity deal evaluations regarding Slack. Marcos tactfully deflects the question.2:17–5:21 · Guest teaching 3/10 Pricing.io Service Packages and SaaS Pricing Competitive Landscape Nathan names major industry competitors like ProfitWell and Price Intelligently while digging into Marcos's engagement pricing tiers. Marcos explains his sprint project model and clarifies what enterprise consultancies versus specialized agencies charge.5:21–7:39 · Guest teaching 6/10 Step-by-Step SaaS Pricing Optimization Methodology Marcos outlines his step-by-step methodology for pricing SaaS products, moving from growth objectives and customer maturity curves to price envelopes. Nathan listens closely and prompts Marcos to define technical jargon like 'pricing envelope'.7:42–11:03 · Guest teaching 5/10 Sponsor Break: Rocketlane Collaborative Customer Onboarding Nathan showcases his familiarity with Vista Equity's portfolio and poses a technical M&A question regarding pricing optimization post-acquisition. Marcos reframes PE as 'potential equity' and details how NRR optimization drives valuation multiples.11:04–14:09 · Guest teaching 4/10 Pricing.io Team Composition, Client Scale, and Revenue Metrics Nathan performs rapid revenue math based on client count and pushes Marcos on his agency run rate and book advance strategy. Marcos corrects the revenue assumptions by noting mini-engagements for early-stage startups and clarifies his self-publishing choice.14:09–16:08 · Guest teaching 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions and attempts to get Marcos to reveal confidential Vista Equity deal evaluations regarding Slack. Marcos tactfully deflects the question.2:17–5:21 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Pricing.io Service Packages and SaaS Pricing Competitive Landscape Nathan names major industry competitors like ProfitWell and Price Intelligently while digging into Marcos's engagement pricing tiers. Marcos explains his sprint project model and clarifies what enterprise consultancies versus specialized agencies charge.5:21–7:39 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Step-by-Step SaaS Pricing Optimization Methodology Marcos outlines his step-by-step methodology for pricing SaaS products, moving from growth objectives and customer maturity curves to price envelopes. Nathan listens closely and prompts Marcos to define technical jargon like 'pricing envelope'.7:42–11:03 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sponsor Break: Rocketlane Collaborative Customer Onboarding Nathan showcases his familiarity with Vista Equity's portfolio and poses a technical M&A question regarding pricing optimization post-acquisition. Marcos reframes PE as 'potential equity' and details how NRR optimization drives valuation multiples.11:04–14:09 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Pricing.io Team Composition, Client Scale, and Revenue Metrics Nathan performs rapid revenue math based on client count and pushes Marcos on his agency run rate and book advance strategy. Marcos corrects the revenue assumptions by noting mini-engagements for early-stage startups and clarifies his self-publishing choice.14:09–16:08 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions and attempts to get Marcos to reveal confidential Vista Equity deal evaluations regarding Slack. Marcos tactfully deflects the question.2:17–5:21 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Pricing.io Service Packages and SaaS Pricing Competitive Landscape Nathan names major industry competitors like ProfitWell and Price Intelligently while digging into Marcos's engagement pricing tiers. Marcos explains his sprint project model and clarifies what enterprise consultancies versus specialized agencies charge.5:21–7:39 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Step-by-Step SaaS Pricing Optimization Methodology Marcos outlines his step-by-step methodology for pricing SaaS products, moving from growth objectives and customer maturity curves to price envelopes. Nathan listens closely and prompts Marcos to define technical jargon like 'pricing envelope'.7:42–11:03 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Sponsor Break: Rocketlane Collaborative Customer Onboarding Nathan showcases his familiarity with Vista Equity's portfolio and poses a technical M&A question regarding pricing optimization post-acquisition. Marcos reframes PE as 'potential equity' and details how NRR optimization drives valuation multiples.11:04–14:09 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Pricing.io Team Composition, Client Scale, and Revenue Metrics Nathan performs rapid revenue math based on client count and pushes Marcos on his agency run rate and book advance strategy. Marcos corrects the revenue assumptions by noting mini-engagements for early-stage startups and clarifies his self-publishing choice.14:09–16:08 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions and attempts to get Marcos to reveal confidential Vista Equity deal evaluations regarding Slack. Marcos tactfully deflects the question.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 52.8% · guest 47.2%0:00 · Nathan 52.8% · guest 47.2%3:00 · Nathan 21.3% · guest 78.7%3:00 · Nathan 21.3% · guest 78.7%6:00 · Nathan 45.3% · guest 54.7%6:00 · Nathan 45.3% · guest 54.7%9:00 · Nathan 41.5% · guest 58.5%9:00 · Nathan 41.5% · guest 58.5%12:00 · Nathan 33.2% · guest 66.8%12:00 · Nathan 33.2% · guest 66.8%15:00 · Nathan 58% · guest 42%15:00 · Nathan 58% · guest 42%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:57 Deflecting Vista Equity deal gossip

Marcos politely refuses to answer Nathan's probing question regarding whether Vista Equity considered acquiring Slack, citing confidentiality constraints.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 11:31 Challenging agency revenue math

Nathan pushes Marcos on his revenue figures, calculating a $3M floor based on 106 clients at minimum retainer rates and pressing him on breaking $1M.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 5:32 Masterclass on SaaS pricing architecture

Marcos walks Nathan through his framework for pricing software by mapping customer maturity curves, feature experiences, and ROI triangulation rather than simple tiering.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 13:26 Explaining publisher advance dynamics

Nathan demonstrates insider knowledge of the publishing industry, explaining the relationship between advance sizes and publisher marketing incentives.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Pricing.io Service Packages and SaaS Pricing Competitive Landscape 5312 Nathan names major industry competitors like ProfitWell and Price Intelligently while digging into Marcos's engagement pricing tiers. Marcos explains his sprint project model and clarifies what enterprise consultancies versus specialized agencies charge.
Step-by-Step SaaS Pricing Optimization Methodology 3612 Marcos outlines his step-by-step methodology for pricing SaaS products, moving from growth objectives and customer maturity curves to price envelopes. Nathan listens closely and prompts Marcos to define technical jargon like 'pricing envelope'.
Sponsor Break: Rocketlane Collaborative Customer Onboarding 6512 Nathan showcases his familiarity with Vista Equity's portfolio and poses a technical M&A question regarding pricing optimization post-acquisition. Marcos reframes PE as 'potential equity' and details how NRR optimization drives valuation multiples.
Pricing.io Team Composition, Client Scale, and Revenue Metrics 5414 Nathan performs rapid revenue math based on client count and pushes Marcos on his agency run rate and book advance strategy. Marcos corrects the revenue assumptions by noting mini-engagements for early-stage startups and clarifies his self-publishing choice.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 4223 Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions and attempts to get Marcos to reveal confidential Vista Equity deal evaluations regarding Slack. Marcos tactfully deflects the question.

Statements from this episode (6)

Disclosure
Rivera: Most Pricing.io Engagements Cost $25k to $175k
“The bell curve for our engagements can be anywhere the majority paid between anywhere from 25 to one 75 K for the entire engagement, some on the smaller end and some on the higher end”
Marcos Rivera Jul 29, 2022 ▶ 3:01
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Rivera: McKinsey, Bain, and Simon-Kucher Charge High Six Figures to Millions
“All the Simon Kuchers out there, McKinsey's Bain, if you ever run a project with them, it's going to be in the very high six figures to even millions.”
Marcos Rivera Jul 29, 2022 ▶ 4:01
Opinion
Rivera: ProfitWell Offers Pricing Surveys but Skips Implementation
“They do a great job of offering some good survey services to figure out willingness to pay things like that, which a lot of folks take run with and use, but they don't really get into how do you implement this stuff?”
Marcos Rivera Jul 29, 2022 ▶ 4:15
Insight
Rivera: Standard Small, Medium, Large SaaS Segmentation Is Outdated
“Who are you selling to? And no, small, medium, and large is not good enough anymore. I actually help them figure out either on a maturity curve or complexity curve, what these customers really want.”
Marcos Rivera Jul 29, 2022 ▶ 6:02
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Rivera: Pricing.io worked with 106 SaaS companies last year
“So last year we worked with 106 SaaS companies.”
Marcos Rivera Jul 29, 2022 ▶ 11:25
Insight
Latka: Publishers only promote books with $200k+ advances to save their jobs
“If you have a small advance under 50 K, no one works hard to promote you because if it flops, no one loses their job. It's more than a 200 K advance. Somebody's getting fired.”
Nathan Latka Jul 29, 2022 ▶ 13:43
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