Dec 2, 2022 · 19m · top-founders
New SaaS goes 0 to $2.4m in 9 months using genius growth strategy
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this interview with Nathan Latka, Instantly.ai founder Raul Kaevand explains how his bootstrapped cold outreach software scaled from zero to $200,000 in monthly recurring revenue in under nine months. Raul details the transition from running a lead generation agency, their co-founder equity structure, tactical cold email copywriting frameworks, and proactive churn mitigation strategies.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 33.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Nathan as informed peer 6.2 Guest teaching 3.2 Guest disagreement 1.5 Nathan pushing back 3.0
speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:50 Raul rejects non-dilutive debt offer
Raul brushes off Latka's funding offer by pointing out that their acquisition is essentially free and they have no practical place to deploy external debt.
Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 10:13 Latka scrutinizes customer count definitionLatka refuses to take top-line customer numbers at face value, explicitly demanding to know if AppSumo lifetime deals are skewing the monthly subscriber count.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:53 Raul breaks down effective cold outreach mechanicsRaul dispels common outreach myths by explaining why subject lines are overrated and quoting the exact ultra-minimalist cold email template generating pipeline.
Nathan holds their own ▶ 14:28 Latka outlines non-dilutive bootstrapping finance termsLatka demonstrates deep financial acumen by structuring a hypothetical 1.5 million non-dilutive four-year debt facility on the fly for the guest's 2.4 million run rate.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Nathan as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Nathan pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Raul Kaevand and the Origins of Instantly.ai | 6 | 2 | 1 | 2 | Latka immediately categorizes the business model comparing it to Lemlist and digs into unit metrics. Kaevand willingly breaks down the transition from a service agency generating 30k MRR to building internal software. | |
| Finding a Technical Co-Founder and Equity Structuring | 6 | 2 | 1 | 3 | Latka presses into the exact mechanics of finding a technical co-founder on Reddit and how equity was divided among four founders. Kaevand transparently details the 50/50 split between engineering and the three marketing partners. | |
| Customer Acquisition Tactics: Cold Email, AppSumo, and Content | 7 | 3 | 1 | 4 | Latka sharpens in on acquisition metrics and specifically probes whether lifetime AppSumo users are artificially inflating the 2900 subscriber figure. Kaevand confirms the reported count represents recurring monthly subscribers only. | |
| Tactical Cold Outreach Frameworks and Email Copywriting | 5 | 6 | 2 | 1 | Kaevand educates Latka on modern cold outreach tactics, demystifying complex subject lines in favor of ultra-short two-sentence emails and explaining Facebook SEO community naming. | |
| Bootstrapping Philosophy, Team Headcount, and Capital Efficiency | 7 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Latka demonstrates expertise in non-dilutive debt financing by pitching terms from his 150 million fund. Kaevand politely rejects the need for capital, explaining their zero-cost internal acquisition creates capital efficiency where cash cannot easily be deployed. | |
| Combating Churn Through Customer Education and Proactive Retention | 6 | 4 | 1 | 4 | Latka directly confronts the high 10 percent monthly churn rate as an existential SaaS challenge. Kaevand acknowledges the vulnerability and outlines a transition from post-churn surveys to proactive campaign monitoring and customer education. |
Statements from this episode (17)
Instantly was originally built purely as an internal agency tool
“Like we didn't even plan on launching it just for our own agency. But when we did it and start talking to people about it, then really, so like we have something it's unique.”
Kaevand's lead gen agency hit $30k–$40k MRR before launching SaaS
“And when we launched instantly publicly, the agent itself was around 30, 40 K MRR.”
Instantly acquired its first customers by upselling agency clients
“The first clients that we got for instantly were all the clients that we jumped on a call, offered a service in our leaders agency, and then used instantly.”
Kaevand met his Instantly technical co-founder Sumit on Reddit
“So I posted on indie hackers, I posted on Reddit, which is like a full stack market. They're looking for partners. And this dude randomly messaged me on Reddit... And yeah, on Reddit, I just made a post like co-founder subreddit. We messaged, we talked, and we…”
Instantly split 50% equity to its developer and 50% to marketing
“We pivoted and then we decided to go fifty-fifty and then from my side like previously what I've done wrong is I've given like too much equity in like wrong places and focused more on like software, like other stuff. But I realized like the marketing sales is …”
Instantly hit $10k–$15k MRR when its founders shut down their agency
“Oh, I think it was around, like, 10, 15 K's.”
Instantly sends hundreds of thousands of cold emails daily to acquire customers
“And then on the marketing stuff, it's just, we used instantly sending 100,000 of emails every day.”
Kaevand: AppSumo brings the wrong customers for long-term SaaS retention
“Yeah, because like if you launch there you get wrong kind of customers. You don't get the kind of customers that are going to be with you like long-term. They don't count towards churn like retention. It's a lifetime plan. It's like only good for like very spe…”
Instantly rejected AppSumo's request to run a second lifetime deal campaign
“AppSumo has asked us to go back. Like, so like, no, like no more lifetime deals. Like it's out of question.”
Kaevand: Cold email subject lines are overrated compared to copy and targeting
“The subject line is overrated. Keep it super simple. It doesn't really matter. It's all about the copy and the targeting that, that it actually resonates with the people.”
Instantly acquired approximately 3,000 users from its AppSumo campaign
“We got that around, I think, 3000 people from AppSumo.”
Naming communities by topic rather than brand boosts search discovery
“We didn't want to have that main thing. We are a company because we want that cold emails first. So a little bit like Facebook SEO. So it comes up when people search for cold email. So it's not only for us and then just the masterclass, because it's like a sup…”
Kaevand refuses to raise outside funding for Instantly acquisitions
“I like these things like acquiring, like, different companies. It might be cool, like at some point, but I wouldn't raise money for it to do it. Maybe it's like a stupid business wise, but just for like our, Like the way we built this company and we like worki…”
Instantly operates with a lean team of 15 employees
“So we have the four core team members. Then we have around six or seven now on support. So the support is a big focus for us right now. And then just really, we have, we just had like two more developers. We're working a long time versus like one. So two full-…”