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Mar 16, 2023 · 19m · top-founders

$4m ARR, Hospitals pay $5 Per Utility Meter To Measure Gas Emissions

Daniel Fry · 11m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of Conversations with Nathan Latka, THG Energy CEO Daniel Fry discusses how his SaaS platform centralizes multi-facility utility data and carbon accounting for enterprise clients, scaling the business toward $4 million in ARR. The interview covers the company's $5 per-meter pricing model, white-label channel partner distribution, and its active $6 million fundraising round at a $75 million valuation.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 35.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.3 Guest teaching 2.0 Guest disagreement 1.7 Nathan pushing back 3.9
05100:0010:000:00–2:01 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Founderpath SaaS Valuation Tool and Metrics Database Promotion Segment 1 is a solo promotional intro and sponsor read by Nathan Latka with no guest interaction.2:02–5:14 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Nathan Latka Welcomes THG Energy CEO Daniel Fry Nathan presses Daniel immediately to clarify what an 'account' means for the audience. Daniel explains the multi-facility model and breaks down the ratio of accounts to customers.5:14–7:36 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Utility Pricing Structure, Team Distribution, and Smart Integrations Nathan calculates average monthly customer spend based on $5 per meter across 30 meters. Daniel details their team distribution across Tulsa and Austin.7:36–10:32 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Reconciling Active Utility Meter Counts with Platform Revenue Nathan catches major discrepancies between Daniel's claimed 300,000 accounts and actual revenue, relentlessly drilling down until Daniel admits only 20,000 meters are actively paying.10:33–13:13 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Revenue Expansion, Demand Response Growth, and ARR Targets Nathan refuses to let Daniel mix recurring revenue with one-time setup fees, forcing an exact year-over-year monthly recurring revenue comparison.13:13–17:18 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Channel Partner Distribution Strategy and White-Label Solutions Nathan interrupts Daniel's long go-to-market monologue to interrogate capital structure, seed dilution, prospective valuation multiples, and burn runway.17:19–19:16 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Daniel Fry A collaborative and standard rapid-fire Famous Five round followed by Nathan's closing metrics summary.0:00–2:01 · Guest teaching 0/10 Founderpath SaaS Valuation Tool and Metrics Database Promotion Segment 1 is a solo promotional intro and sponsor read by Nathan Latka with no guest interaction.2:02–5:14 · Guest teaching 3/10 Nathan Latka Welcomes THG Energy CEO Daniel Fry Nathan presses Daniel immediately to clarify what an 'account' means for the audience. Daniel explains the multi-facility model and breaks down the ratio of accounts to customers.5:14–7:36 · Guest teaching 2/10 Utility Pricing Structure, Team Distribution, and Smart Integrations Nathan calculates average monthly customer spend based on $5 per meter across 30 meters. Daniel details their team distribution across Tulsa and Austin.7:36–10:32 · Guest teaching 3/10 Reconciling Active Utility Meter Counts with Platform Revenue Nathan catches major discrepancies between Daniel's claimed 300,000 accounts and actual revenue, relentlessly drilling down until Daniel admits only 20,000 meters are actively paying.10:33–13:13 · Guest teaching 3/10 Revenue Expansion, Demand Response Growth, and ARR Targets Nathan refuses to let Daniel mix recurring revenue with one-time setup fees, forcing an exact year-over-year monthly recurring revenue comparison.13:13–17:18 · Guest teaching 2/10 Channel Partner Distribution Strategy and White-Label Solutions Nathan interrupts Daniel's long go-to-market monologue to interrogate capital structure, seed dilution, prospective valuation multiples, and burn runway.17:19–19:16 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Daniel Fry A collaborative and standard rapid-fire Famous Five round followed by Nathan's closing metrics summary.0:00–2:01 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Founderpath SaaS Valuation Tool and Metrics Database Promotion Segment 1 is a solo promotional intro and sponsor read by Nathan Latka with no guest interaction.2:02–5:14 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Nathan Latka Welcomes THG Energy CEO Daniel Fry Nathan presses Daniel immediately to clarify what an 'account' means for the audience. Daniel explains the multi-facility model and breaks down the ratio of accounts to customers.5:14–7:36 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Utility Pricing Structure, Team Distribution, and Smart Integrations Nathan calculates average monthly customer spend based on $5 per meter across 30 meters. Daniel details their team distribution across Tulsa and Austin.7:36–10:32 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Reconciling Active Utility Meter Counts with Platform Revenue Nathan catches major discrepancies between Daniel's claimed 300,000 accounts and actual revenue, relentlessly drilling down until Daniel admits only 20,000 meters are actively paying.10:33–13:13 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Revenue Expansion, Demand Response Growth, and ARR Targets Nathan refuses to let Daniel mix recurring revenue with one-time setup fees, forcing an exact year-over-year monthly recurring revenue comparison.13:13–17:18 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Channel Partner Distribution Strategy and White-Label Solutions Nathan interrupts Daniel's long go-to-market monologue to interrogate capital structure, seed dilution, prospective valuation multiples, and burn runway.17:19–19:16 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Daniel Fry A collaborative and standard rapid-fire Famous Five round followed by Nathan's closing metrics summary.0:00–2:01 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Founderpath SaaS Valuation Tool and Metrics Database Promotion Segment 1 is a solo promotional intro and sponsor read by Nathan Latka with no guest interaction.2:02–5:14 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Nathan Latka Welcomes THG Energy CEO Daniel Fry Nathan presses Daniel immediately to clarify what an 'account' means for the audience. Daniel explains the multi-facility model and breaks down the ratio of accounts to customers.5:14–7:36 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Utility Pricing Structure, Team Distribution, and Smart Integrations Nathan calculates average monthly customer spend based on $5 per meter across 30 meters. Daniel details their team distribution across Tulsa and Austin.7:36–10:32 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Reconciling Active Utility Meter Counts with Platform Revenue Nathan catches major discrepancies between Daniel's claimed 300,000 accounts and actual revenue, relentlessly drilling down until Daniel admits only 20,000 meters are actively paying.10:33–13:13 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Revenue Expansion, Demand Response Growth, and ARR Targets Nathan refuses to let Daniel mix recurring revenue with one-time setup fees, forcing an exact year-over-year monthly recurring revenue comparison.13:13–17:18 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Channel Partner Distribution Strategy and White-Label Solutions Nathan interrupts Daniel's long go-to-market monologue to interrogate capital structure, seed dilution, prospective valuation multiples, and burn runway.17:19–19:16 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Daniel Fry A collaborative and standard rapid-fire Famous Five round followed by Nathan's closing metrics summary.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 88% · guest 12%0:00 · Nathan 88% · guest 12%3:00 · Nathan 15.5% · guest 84.5%3:00 · Nathan 15.5% · guest 84.5%6:00 · Nathan 24.4% · guest 75.6%6:00 · Nathan 24.4% · guest 75.6%9:00 · Nathan 36.4% · guest 63.6%9:00 · Nathan 36.4% · guest 63.6%12:00 · Nathan 14.4% · guest 85.6%12:00 · Nathan 14.4% · guest 85.6%15:00 · Nathan 24.6% · guest 75.4%15:00 · Nathan 24.6% · guest 75.4%18:00 · Nathan 62.9% · guest 37.1%18:00 · Nathan 62.9% · guest 37.1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 9:07 Daniel resists meter count breakdown

Daniel rejects Nathan's simple mathematical division of active customers and meters, arguing the numbers must be viewed through a completely different lens.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 10:13 Nathan rejects TAM pivot

Nathan cuts off Daniel's attempt to talk about broader market opportunity, sharply demanding focus solely on actual paying customers and verified MRR.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 8:16 Daniel clarifies active vs tracked meters

Daniel explains the operational nuance that while 300,000 accounts are in their system, only a subset of 20,000 active meters are currently billed on full SaaS.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 7:36 Nathan catches the $1.5M revenue discrepancy

Nathan immediately performs real-time unit math on 300,000 meters at $5 each, exposing that Daniel's headline figure does not match the actual business revenue.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Founderpath SaaS Valuation Tool and Metrics Database Promotion 0000 Segment 1 is a solo promotional intro and sponsor read by Nathan Latka with no guest interaction.
Nathan Latka Welcomes THG Energy CEO Daniel Fry 5314 Nathan presses Daniel immediately to clarify what an 'account' means for the audience. Daniel explains the multi-facility model and breaks down the ratio of accounts to customers.
Utility Pricing Structure, Team Distribution, and Smart Integrations 6213 Nathan calculates average monthly customer spend based on $5 per meter across 30 meters. Daniel details their team distribution across Tulsa and Austin.
Reconciling Active Utility Meter Counts with Platform Revenue 8348 Nathan catches major discrepancies between Daniel's claimed 300,000 accounts and actual revenue, relentlessly drilling down until Daniel admits only 20,000 meters are actively paying.
Revenue Expansion, Demand Response Growth, and ARR Targets 7336 Nathan refuses to let Daniel mix recurring revenue with one-time setup fees, forcing an exact year-over-year monthly recurring revenue comparison.
Channel Partner Distribution Strategy and White-Label Solutions 7225 Nathan interrupts Daniel's long go-to-market monologue to interrogate capital structure, seed dilution, prospective valuation multiples, and burn runway.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Daniel Fry 4111 A collaborative and standard rapid-fire Famous Five round followed by Nathan's closing metrics summary.

Statements from this episode (9)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
THG Energy manages over 300,000 accounts across 20 countries
“We start with utility bills and we work with more than 300,000 accounts. Commercial, industrial multi-facility accounts. We're in all 50 states and we're in 20 countries.”
Daniel Fry Mar 16, 2023 ▶ 2:36
Disclosure
THG Energy charges $5 per utility meter per month
“Per, per utility meter that, that we're measuring and managing.”
Daniel Fry Mar 16, 2023 ▶ 6:19
Disclosure
THG Energy operates 20,000 active meters across 1,000 customers
“So we've got 20,000 active accounts that, that we gather that five dollar meter on, and that, that's probably about a thousand customers.”
Daniel Fry Mar 16, 2023 ▶ 9:21
Assertion Not checkable as stated
THG Energy closed 2022 at $2 million in ARR
“So all in we're, we closed the year at right at two million dollars of annual recurring revenue.”
Daniel Fry Mar 16, 2023 ▶ 12:09
Prediction Not checkable as stated
THG Energy projects reaching $4 million ARR by late 2023
“So we should end up the year by at the end of 20, 23 somewhere in the range of four million dollars of annual recurring revenue.”
Daniel Fry Mar 16, 2023 ▶ 12:24
Disclosure
THG Energy previously raised $10 million in seed capital
“We have raised ten million dollars of seed a capital.”
Daniel Fry Mar 16, 2023 ▶ 15:03
Disclosure
THG Energy is actively raising an additional $6 million round
“We're in the process of raising another six million dollars that will accelerate this growth that we see in front of us.”
Daniel Fry Mar 16, 2023 ▶ 15:12
Prediction Not checkable as stated
THG Energy expects to achieve profitability within a year
“We aren't, we are not yet profitable, but we can see profitability within the next year.”
Daniel Fry Mar 16, 2023 ▶ 16:24
Disclosure
George Kaiser Family Foundation backed THG Energy's seed round
“We have a great capital partner currently George Kaiser Family Foundation, six billion dollar foundation that's funded our seed round, and has continued to support us as needs come along.”
Daniel Fry Mar 16, 2023 ▶ 17:06
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