Aug 23, 2023 · 18m · top-founders

Proof you don't need a new idea, just better execution. Firm hits 160 customers, $25k MRR

Steven Nellemans · 11m spoken Nathan Latka · 4m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this interview on Conversations with Nathan Latka, Luna founder Steven Nellemans breaks down how his lean three-person startup scaled AI-powered cold email outreach to $24,500 in monthly recurring revenue across 163 customers. Nellemans discusses Luna's product-led growth model, fundraising trajectory, churn reduction efforts, and competitive strategy against legacy sales platforms.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 28.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.9 Guest teaching 2.6 Guest disagreement 1.7 Nathan pushing back 3.9
05100:0010:000:35–2:35 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Executive Summary of Luna's Growth Metrics Nathan frames the interview around audience skepticism regarding AI email spam tools. Steven smoothly addresses the critique by reframing AI from a generic copy generator into high-precision targeting.2:36–5:07 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Luna's Ideal Customer Profiles and Monetization Strategy Nathan systematically explores Luna's ICPs, pricing tiers, and expansion triggers. Steven provides clear details on geographic and timing-based targeting features driving conversions.5:07–7:18 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Product-Led Growth Funnel and Revenue Scaling Nathan actively calculates funnel metrics and MRR in real time, slightly underestimating Steven's current figure. Steven clarifies the distinction between total signups and weekly active users.7:19–9:46 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Pre-Seed Funding History and Seed Round Ambitions Nathan questions whether Steven regrets selling pre-seed equity and probes his targeted valuation in a tougher funding climate. Steven explains why speed justified the dilution and sets a target around $12 million.9:47–14:06 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Lean Team Dynamics and Competing with Apollo.io Nathan pushes hard on how a 3-person team can challenge Apollo's 900-person operation, then deconstructs Steven's bio claim of building a $70M startup. Steven candidly concedes beginner mistakes while asserting the experience taught him how to scale faster.14:06–16:47 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Analyzing Monthly Churn and Cold Email Response Rates Nathan highlights the danger of a 15% monthly dollar churn rate, pointing out it turns the entire base over in seven months. Steven acknowledges the high churn challenge and explains how positive response hit rates will improve retention.16:48–18:21 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Rapid-Fire Questions with Steven Nellemans Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions and summarizes the company's vital metrics. Steven provides brief, direct responses.0:35–2:35 · Guest teaching 3/10 Executive Summary of Luna's Growth Metrics Nathan frames the interview around audience skepticism regarding AI email spam tools. Steven smoothly addresses the critique by reframing AI from a generic copy generator into high-precision targeting.2:36–5:07 · Guest teaching 2/10 Luna's Ideal Customer Profiles and Monetization Strategy Nathan systematically explores Luna's ICPs, pricing tiers, and expansion triggers. Steven provides clear details on geographic and timing-based targeting features driving conversions.5:07–7:18 · Guest teaching 2/10 Product-Led Growth Funnel and Revenue Scaling Nathan actively calculates funnel metrics and MRR in real time, slightly underestimating Steven's current figure. Steven clarifies the distinction between total signups and weekly active users.7:19–9:46 · Guest teaching 3/10 Pre-Seed Funding History and Seed Round Ambitions Nathan questions whether Steven regrets selling pre-seed equity and probes his targeted valuation in a tougher funding climate. Steven explains why speed justified the dilution and sets a target around $12 million.9:47–14:06 · Guest teaching 3/10 Lean Team Dynamics and Competing with Apollo.io Nathan pushes hard on how a 3-person team can challenge Apollo's 900-person operation, then deconstructs Steven's bio claim of building a $70M startup. Steven candidly concedes beginner mistakes while asserting the experience taught him how to scale faster.14:06–16:47 · Guest teaching 4/10 Analyzing Monthly Churn and Cold Email Response Rates Nathan highlights the danger of a 15% monthly dollar churn rate, pointing out it turns the entire base over in seven months. Steven acknowledges the high churn challenge and explains how positive response hit rates will improve retention.16:48–18:21 · Guest teaching 1/10 Rapid-Fire Questions with Steven Nellemans Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions and summarizes the company's vital metrics. Steven provides brief, direct responses.0:35–2:35 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Executive Summary of Luna's Growth Metrics Nathan frames the interview around audience skepticism regarding AI email spam tools. Steven smoothly addresses the critique by reframing AI from a generic copy generator into high-precision targeting.2:36–5:07 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Luna's Ideal Customer Profiles and Monetization Strategy Nathan systematically explores Luna's ICPs, pricing tiers, and expansion triggers. Steven provides clear details on geographic and timing-based targeting features driving conversions.5:07–7:18 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Product-Led Growth Funnel and Revenue Scaling Nathan actively calculates funnel metrics and MRR in real time, slightly underestimating Steven's current figure. Steven clarifies the distinction between total signups and weekly active users.7:19–9:46 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Pre-Seed Funding History and Seed Round Ambitions Nathan questions whether Steven regrets selling pre-seed equity and probes his targeted valuation in a tougher funding climate. Steven explains why speed justified the dilution and sets a target around $12 million.9:47–14:06 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Lean Team Dynamics and Competing with Apollo.io Nathan pushes hard on how a 3-person team can challenge Apollo's 900-person operation, then deconstructs Steven's bio claim of building a $70M startup. Steven candidly concedes beginner mistakes while asserting the experience taught him how to scale faster.14:06–16:47 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Analyzing Monthly Churn and Cold Email Response Rates Nathan highlights the danger of a 15% monthly dollar churn rate, pointing out it turns the entire base over in seven months. Steven acknowledges the high churn challenge and explains how positive response hit rates will improve retention.16:48–18:21 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Rapid-Fire Questions with Steven Nellemans Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions and summarizes the company's vital metrics. Steven provides brief, direct responses.0:35–2:35 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Executive Summary of Luna's Growth Metrics Nathan frames the interview around audience skepticism regarding AI email spam tools. Steven smoothly addresses the critique by reframing AI from a generic copy generator into high-precision targeting.2:36–5:07 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Luna's Ideal Customer Profiles and Monetization Strategy Nathan systematically explores Luna's ICPs, pricing tiers, and expansion triggers. Steven provides clear details on geographic and timing-based targeting features driving conversions.5:07–7:18 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Product-Led Growth Funnel and Revenue Scaling Nathan actively calculates funnel metrics and MRR in real time, slightly underestimating Steven's current figure. Steven clarifies the distinction between total signups and weekly active users.7:19–9:46 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Pre-Seed Funding History and Seed Round Ambitions Nathan questions whether Steven regrets selling pre-seed equity and probes his targeted valuation in a tougher funding climate. Steven explains why speed justified the dilution and sets a target around $12 million.9:47–14:06 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Lean Team Dynamics and Competing with Apollo.io Nathan pushes hard on how a 3-person team can challenge Apollo's 900-person operation, then deconstructs Steven's bio claim of building a $70M startup. Steven candidly concedes beginner mistakes while asserting the experience taught him how to scale faster.14:06–16:47 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Analyzing Monthly Churn and Cold Email Response Rates Nathan highlights the danger of a 15% monthly dollar churn rate, pointing out it turns the entire base over in seven months. Steven acknowledges the high churn challenge and explains how positive response hit rates will improve retention.16:48–18:21 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Rapid-Fire Questions with Steven Nellemans Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions and summarizes the company's vital metrics. Steven provides brief, direct responses.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 52.8% · guest 47.2%0:00 · Nathan 52.8% · guest 47.2%3:00 · Nathan 23% · guest 77%3:00 · Nathan 23% · guest 77%6:00 · Nathan 19.4% · guest 80.6%6:00 · Nathan 19.4% · guest 80.6%9:00 · Nathan 16.6% · guest 83.4%9:00 · Nathan 16.6% · guest 83.4%12:00 · Nathan 23.8% · guest 76.2%12:00 · Nathan 23.8% · guest 76.2%15:00 · Nathan 22.9% · guest 77.1%15:00 · Nathan 22.9% · guest 77.1%18:00 · Nathan 97.3% · guest 2.7%18:00 · Nathan 97.3% · guest 2.7%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 7:57 Firm rejection of bootstrap preference

Steven firmly pushes back against Nathan's suggestion that he might regret selling equity, insisting that fast market execution strictly required venture capital.

Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 11:01 Challenging David vs Goliath Apollo positioning

Nathan cuts in to question how Steven can credibly convince clients he has an edge over Apollo when outmatched by hundreds of employees.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 1:34 Reframing AI email spam economics

Steven educates the host on why AI solves spam through hyper-relevant targeting and context rather than mass-generating email templates.

Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:35 Deconstructing paper valuation claims

Nathan cuts through the impressive headline bio to point out that a paper valuation followed by a merger was likely not a major financial exit.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Executive Summary of Luna's Growth Metrics 5324 Nathan frames the interview around audience skepticism regarding AI email spam tools. Steven smoothly addresses the critique by reframing AI from a generic copy generator into high-precision targeting.
Luna's Ideal Customer Profiles and Monetization Strategy 6212 Nathan systematically explores Luna's ICPs, pricing tiers, and expansion triggers. Steven provides clear details on geographic and timing-based targeting features driving conversions.
Product-Led Growth Funnel and Revenue Scaling 6213 Nathan actively calculates funnel metrics and MRR in real time, slightly underestimating Steven's current figure. Steven clarifies the distinction between total signups and weekly active users.
Pre-Seed Funding History and Seed Round Ambitions 6324 Nathan questions whether Steven regrets selling pre-seed equity and probes his targeted valuation in a tougher funding climate. Steven explains why speed justified the dilution and sets a target around $12 million.
Lean Team Dynamics and Competing with Apollo.io 7337 Nathan pushes hard on how a 3-person team can challenge Apollo's 900-person operation, then deconstructs Steven's bio claim of building a $70M startup. Steven candidly concedes beginner mistakes while asserting the experience taught him how to scale faster.
Analyzing Monthly Churn and Cold Email Response Rates 7426 Nathan highlights the danger of a 15% monthly dollar churn rate, pointing out it turns the entire base over in seven months. Steven acknowledges the high churn challenge and explains how positive response hit rates will improve retention.
Rapid-Fire Questions with Steven Nellemans 4111 Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions and summarizes the company's vital metrics. Steven provides brief, direct responses.

Statements from this episode (19)

Assertion Contradicted
Latka: Nellemans raised $20M and built a $70M startup at 19
“He's raised twenty million bucks for his startups and built a seventy million startup at 19.”
Nathan Latka Aug 23, 2023 ▶ 1:12
Opinion
Nellemans: AI can reduce outreach needed per reply to 10–100 emails
“AI can actually improve the quality so much that you do not have to send a thousand emails to get a reply, but in the end, maybe a hundred, or maybe even 10 to get a reply.”
Steven Nellemans Aug 23, 2023 ▶ 2:22
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Nellemans: Luna averages $139/month with tiers from $100 to $2,500
“On average, it's about 139 dollars. That's like the average sale price that we have right now. We have a tiered subscription pricing ranging from 100, which is the lowest one up to two and a half thousand which is the highest one.”
Steven Nellemans Aug 23, 2023 ▶ 3:19
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Nellemans: Luna has 163 paying customers
“We have a 163 customers right now.”
Steven Nellemans Aug 23, 2023 ▶ 5:11
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Nellemans: Luna has over 10,000 signups and roughly 1,000 WAUs
“I think we have over 10 K signups but we have like a thousand weekly active users.”
Steven Nellemans Aug 23, 2023 ▶ 5:29
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Nellemans: 37% of Luna's signups come from referrals
“And that's also why 37% of our signups come from referrals at this moment.”
Steven Nellemans Aug 23, 2023 ▶ 5:44
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Nellemans: Luna reaches $24.5k in monthly recurring revenue
“Yeah, it's 24 and a half right now.”
Steven Nellemans Aug 23, 2023 ▶ 6:15
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Nellemans: Luna was at $1,000 MRR in January 2023
“So also in January, 23, we were still at about a thousand. dollars MRR.”
Steven Nellemans Aug 23, 2023 ▶ 6:54
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Nellemans: Luna has been growing 50% month-over-month
“And that's why we've been growing 50% month over month.”
Steven Nellemans Aug 23, 2023 ▶ 7:15
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Nellemans: Luna is profitable as of August 2023
“So we are profitable right now, but we raised a small angel around pre-launch.”
Steven Nellemans Aug 23, 2023 ▶ 7:24
Disclosure
Nellemans: Luna raised $350k in pre-seed capital
“That was 350 K.”
Steven Nellemans Aug 23, 2023 ▶ 7:49
Disclosure
Nellemans: Luna raised pre-seed at a $6M pre-money valuation
“No, we did it on a six million pre-money evaluation.”
Steven Nellemans Aug 23, 2023 ▶ 8:46
Disclosure
Nellemans: Luna aims to raise $1.5M to $2M in next round
“We're thinking about two million, like one and a half, two million, something like that.”
Steven Nellemans Aug 23, 2023 ▶ 8:56
Disclosure
Nellemans: Luna aims to double valuation to $12M despite market shift
“I think we'd love to double the valuation since we launched, but it was also another funding climate in twenty-twenty-two than it is right now.”
Steven Nellemans Aug 23, 2023 ▶ 9:34
Disclosure
Nellemans: Luna operates with only three full-time co-founders
“Just as three co-founders. So we started a company with three, one CTO, one chief growth and me, and we're still with the three of us.”
Steven Nellemans Aug 23, 2023 ▶ 9:51
Opinion
Nellemans: Apollo.io is Luna's biggest competitor despite also being a partner
“Well, there are a lot of companies working on the same technology, but I think the biggest competitor for us would be Apollo actually, Apollo.io, which is a very interesting one because they're a partner as well.”
Steven Nellemans Aug 23, 2023 ▶ 10:06
Opinion
Nellemans: Superior product is useless without market awareness
“And we have a superior product right now, but having a superior product is nothing if, Nobody knows about it.”
Steven Nellemans Aug 23, 2023 ▶ 11:35
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Nellemans: Luna users average a 4.57% positive cold email response rate
“It's for all of our users and like on average, it's 4.57%.”
Steven Nellemans Aug 23, 2023 ▶ 15:19
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Nellemans: Luna's team achieves 9.3% positive cold email response rate
“That's for all our users on average for our personal accounts, because we're continuously using Luna to state our company, but also improve the products. It's a 9.3%.”
Steven Nellemans Aug 23, 2023 ▶ 15:30
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