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Nov 1, 2023 · 24m · top-founders

He Hit $8m in Revenue Helping UK Companies Train Employees Faster and Comply with Regulation

Richard Olberg · 11m spoken Nathan Latka · 9m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Nathan Latka interviews Aptem founder Richard Olberg on how his B2B SaaS platform achieved $8 million in annual recurring revenue serving the UK's regulated vocational training sector. Olberg shares insights on overcoming macroeconomic growth constraints, bootstrapping through customer incubation, and leveraging generative AI for future expansion.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 42.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.2 Guest teaching 3.2 Guest disagreement 1.8 Nathan pushing back 2.8
05100:0010:0020:000:00–4:29 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Show Overview and Aptem Financial Highlights Nathan introduces the company's financial benchmarks and explores the operational model. Richard clarifies the mechanics of the UK apprenticeship levy and how intermediaries operate under regulation.4:29–6:53 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 FounderPath SaaS Valuation Platform Commercial Mid-roll commercial segment where Nathan presents a product walkthrough and promotional pitch for FounderPath's SaaS valuation tool.6:54–13:04 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Revenue Growth, Churn Dynamics, and Expansion Challenges A tense exchange ensues when Nathan challenges Richard on lack of net expansion revenue, bluntly asserting that flat customer volume implies the software is ineffective. Richard firmly pushes back, educating Nathan on market macro factors, volume discounting, and the reality of vocational training operational software.13:05–18:01 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Company Origins, Strategic Pivots, and the Corndel Play Richard explains his strategic pivot from cyclical employability contracts to vocational training and reveals founding Corndel to prove the platform. Nathan presses on funding math, equity dilution, and exit proceeds.18:01–20:40 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Capital Structure, Team Size, and AI Integration Nathan drills into Aptem's round timing, pre-money valuation multiples, and team allocation. Richard outlines their aggressive investment in proprietary LLM tools integrated directly into their database.20:40–22:24 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire and Episode Recap Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions and concludes the show with an episode summary and outro.0:00–4:29 · Guest teaching 4/10 Show Overview and Aptem Financial Highlights Nathan introduces the company's financial benchmarks and explores the operational model. Richard clarifies the mechanics of the UK apprenticeship levy and how intermediaries operate under regulation.4:29–6:53 · Guest teaching 0/10 FounderPath SaaS Valuation Platform Commercial Mid-roll commercial segment where Nathan presents a product walkthrough and promotional pitch for FounderPath's SaaS valuation tool.6:54–13:04 · Guest teaching 7/10 Revenue Growth, Churn Dynamics, and Expansion Challenges A tense exchange ensues when Nathan challenges Richard on lack of net expansion revenue, bluntly asserting that flat customer volume implies the software is ineffective. Richard firmly pushes back, educating Nathan on market macro factors, volume discounting, and the reality of vocational training operational software.13:05–18:01 · Guest teaching 4/10 Company Origins, Strategic Pivots, and the Corndel Play Richard explains his strategic pivot from cyclical employability contracts to vocational training and reveals founding Corndel to prove the platform. Nathan presses on funding math, equity dilution, and exit proceeds.18:01–20:40 · Guest teaching 3/10 Capital Structure, Team Size, and AI Integration Nathan drills into Aptem's round timing, pre-money valuation multiples, and team allocation. Richard outlines their aggressive investment in proprietary LLM tools integrated directly into their database.20:40–22:24 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire and Episode Recap Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions and concludes the show with an episode summary and outro.0:00–4:29 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Show Overview and Aptem Financial Highlights Nathan introduces the company's financial benchmarks and explores the operational model. Richard clarifies the mechanics of the UK apprenticeship levy and how intermediaries operate under regulation.4:29–6:53 · Guest disagreement 0/10 FounderPath SaaS Valuation Platform Commercial Mid-roll commercial segment where Nathan presents a product walkthrough and promotional pitch for FounderPath's SaaS valuation tool.6:54–13:04 · Guest disagreement 6/10 Revenue Growth, Churn Dynamics, and Expansion Challenges A tense exchange ensues when Nathan challenges Richard on lack of net expansion revenue, bluntly asserting that flat customer volume implies the software is ineffective. Richard firmly pushes back, educating Nathan on market macro factors, volume discounting, and the reality of vocational training operational software.13:05–18:01 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Company Origins, Strategic Pivots, and the Corndel Play Richard explains his strategic pivot from cyclical employability contracts to vocational training and reveals founding Corndel to prove the platform. Nathan presses on funding math, equity dilution, and exit proceeds.18:01–20:40 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Capital Structure, Team Size, and AI Integration Nathan drills into Aptem's round timing, pre-money valuation multiples, and team allocation. Richard outlines their aggressive investment in proprietary LLM tools integrated directly into their database.20:40–22:24 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire and Episode Recap Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions and concludes the show with an episode summary and outro.0:00–4:29 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Show Overview and Aptem Financial Highlights Nathan introduces the company's financial benchmarks and explores the operational model. Richard clarifies the mechanics of the UK apprenticeship levy and how intermediaries operate under regulation.4:29–6:53 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 FounderPath SaaS Valuation Platform Commercial Mid-roll commercial segment where Nathan presents a product walkthrough and promotional pitch for FounderPath's SaaS valuation tool.6:54–13:04 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Revenue Growth, Churn Dynamics, and Expansion Challenges A tense exchange ensues when Nathan challenges Richard on lack of net expansion revenue, bluntly asserting that flat customer volume implies the software is ineffective. Richard firmly pushes back, educating Nathan on market macro factors, volume discounting, and the reality of vocational training operational software.13:05–18:01 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Company Origins, Strategic Pivots, and the Corndel Play Richard explains his strategic pivot from cyclical employability contracts to vocational training and reveals founding Corndel to prove the platform. Nathan presses on funding math, equity dilution, and exit proceeds.18:01–20:40 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Capital Structure, Team Size, and AI Integration Nathan drills into Aptem's round timing, pre-money valuation multiples, and team allocation. Richard outlines their aggressive investment in proprietary LLM tools integrated directly into their database.20:40–22:24 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire and Episode Recap Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions and concludes the show with an episode summary and outro.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 42.4% · guest 57.6%0:00 · Nathan 42.4% · guest 57.6%3:00 · Nathan 60.8% · guest 39.2%3:00 · Nathan 60.8% · guest 39.2%6:00 · Nathan 50.8% · guest 49.2%6:00 · Nathan 50.8% · guest 49.2%9:00 · Nathan 36.3% · guest 63.7%9:00 · Nathan 36.3% · guest 63.7%12:00 · Nathan 18.2% · guest 81.8%12:00 · Nathan 18.2% · guest 81.8%15:00 · Nathan 20.3% · guest 79.7%15:00 · Nathan 20.3% · guest 79.7%18:00 · Nathan 28.9% · guest 71.1%18:00 · Nathan 28.9% · guest 71.1%21:00 · Nathan 86% · guest 14%21:00 · Nathan 86% · guest 14%24:00 · Nathan 48.7% · guest 51.3%24:00 · Nathan 48.7% · guest 51.3%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 11:46 Richard rejects Nathan's binary framing on software failure

When Nathan claims flat customer volume means the software is not working, Richard explicitly counters the premise, citing macro market shifts and sector contractions.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 11:26 Nathan interrupts and presses on pricing model expansion

Nathan cuts Richard off to insist that per-trainee pricing should automatically yield expansion revenue if clients grow.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:46 Richard explains operational efficiency versus course quality dynamics

Richard educates Nathan on why SaaS for compliance and backend efficiency is not directly correlated to short-term trainee enrollment growth.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 9:17 Nathan challenges lack of net negative churn

Nathan applies standard SaaS unit economics logic to interrogate why Aptem has not monetized customer seat growth despite high logo retention.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Show Overview and Aptem Financial Highlights 5412 Nathan introduces the company's financial benchmarks and explores the operational model. Richard clarifies the mechanics of the UK apprenticeship levy and how intermediaries operate under regulation.
FounderPath SaaS Valuation Platform Commercial 0000 Mid-roll commercial segment where Nathan presents a product walkthrough and promotional pitch for FounderPath's SaaS valuation tool.
Revenue Growth, Churn Dynamics, and Expansion Challenges 7768 A tense exchange ensues when Nathan challenges Richard on lack of net expansion revenue, bluntly asserting that flat customer volume implies the software is ineffective. Richard firmly pushes back, educating Nathan on market macro factors, volume discounting, and the reality of vocational training operational software.
Company Origins, Strategic Pivots, and the Corndel Play 5423 Richard explains his strategic pivot from cyclical employability contracts to vocational training and reveals founding Corndel to prove the platform. Nathan presses on funding math, equity dilution, and exit proceeds.
Capital Structure, Team Size, and AI Integration 5313 Nathan drills into Aptem's round timing, pre-money valuation multiples, and team allocation. Richard outlines their aggressive investment in proprietary LLM tools integrated directly into their database.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire and Episode Recap 3111 Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions and concludes the show with an episode summary and outro.

Statements from this episode (13)

Assertion Supported
Olberg: 500,000 people train annually across 1,500 UK vocational providers
“It's a big market, half a million people a year in the UK being trained, 1500 different organizations doing this training.”
Richard Olberg Nov 1, 2023 ▶ 1:36
Assertion Partly supported
Olberg: UK firms with £3M+ payroll must pay 0.5% apprenticeship tax
“Every firm in the UK with a payroll of three million or more has to pay half a percent of that payroll into a tax that goes towards funding vocational training.”
Richard Olberg Nov 1, 2023 ▶ 2:53
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Olberg: Aptem is the UK's largest vocational training software provider
“There are 40 universities in this country who use our technology. We are the largest provider in the UK of technology for this type of training.”
Richard Olberg Nov 1, 2023 ▶ 3:25
Disclosure
Aptem's typical customer spends £40k to £50k annually
“A large customer will spend a couple of 100,300 thousand a year with us, a small customer, maybe 10,000 a year with us, and a sort of typical customer, 40 to 50,000 a year with us.”
Richard Olberg Nov 1, 2023 ▶ 4:15
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Aptem reaches approximately $8 million in ARR
“Dollars were about eight million-ish.”
Richard Olberg Nov 1, 2023 ▶ 7:43
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Aptem achieved over 50% YoY growth for four consecutive years
“Put it this way, we have for the last four years done over 50% year-on-year growth.”
Richard Olberg Nov 1, 2023 ▶ 7:57
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Aptem experienced 2.3% gross revenue churn last year
“2.3 was last year's churn in financial terms.”
Richard Olberg Nov 1, 2023 ▶ 8:48
Disclosure
Aptem has raised $8M to $9M in funding to date
“We've raised about eight or nine million.”
Richard Olberg Nov 1, 2023 ▶ 14:34
Disclosure
Olberg personally invested $1.5M into Aptem before raising institutional capital
“No, I put about one and a half million in.”
Richard Olberg Nov 1, 2023 ▶ 15:21
Assertion Supported
Olberg grew his previous startup Corndel to £20M revenue in three years
“So in fact, I set up a training company with a partner who was our first customer. And we grew that to be the fastest growing training company in the country. We grew it to over twenty million in revenues in three years.”
Richard Olberg Nov 1, 2023 ▶ 16:23
Assertion Supported
Olberg sold his previous training company to private equity for £45M
“Then we sold that business to private equity at the end of, in November, 20, 20. And by the way, we sold it for that number in sterling, not dollars.”
Richard Olberg Nov 1, 2023 ▶ 17:38
Disclosure
Aptem raised its August 2022 round at a sub-$40M pre-money valuation
“So the last valuation was just shy of forty million, just under forty million.”
Richard Olberg Nov 1, 2023 ▶ 18:52
Prediction Not checkable as stated
LLM upselling could potentially double Aptem's business
“So we are seeing that as potentially doubling our business just through selling more to the customers we've got.”
Richard Olberg Nov 1, 2023 ▶ 20:32
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