Jun 17, 2026 · 51m · more-or-less
Teamshares IPO: $60M EBITDA, 92 Companies, Zero Exits · More or Less Podcast
Mike Brown · 37m spoken Sam Lessin · 8m spoken Brit Morin · 24s spoken Podcast Intro Singer · 16s spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this special episode of the 'More or Less' podcast, host Sam Lessin interviews Teamshares co-founder and CEO Mike Brown to discuss the company's evolution from a small business acquisition experiment into a public holding company platform spanning 92 companies and $60M in EBITDA. The conversation covers key strategic pivots, talent development, tech-enabled operations, and the long-term benefits of permanent employee stock ownership over traditional private equity roll-ups.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The hosts hold 18.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
The hosts as informed peer 4.5 Guest teaching 4.8 Guest disagreement 2.0 The hosts pushing back 1.8
speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 35:56 Condemnation of PE multiples and artificial AI theses
Mike scathingly ridicules private equity firms bidding standard HVAC businesses up to 12x EBITDA as third-derivative AI plays before watching them liquidate under Chapter 7.
Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 40:44 Host challenges guest on the Amazon analogySam refuses to let Mike's Amazon comparison slide, directly pointing out that Teamshares is the exact opposite of Amazon because it focuses on generating EBITDA.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 21:00 Disproving the Ivy League generalist leadership thesisMike educates Sam on why placing elite young generalists from consulting and business schools failed in small business environments, requiring a full shift toward industry veterans with prior P&L accountability.
The host holds their own ▶ 10:45 Host pins down the two fundamental business evolutionsSam exhibits deep insider command of Teamshares' journey by crisply synthesizing its two core structural pivots from direct marketplace deals to brokers and from internal successors to external hires.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The hosts as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The hosts pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Welcome and Teamshares Public Listing Milestone | 5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Sam opens the conversation celebrating Teamshares' upcoming public listing as the company's first institutional investor. The dynamic is warm and collegial, with Sam actively corroborating historical milestones and investment details. | |
| First Small Business Acquisition and Operational Challenges | 4 | 4 | 2 | 1 | Mike recounts transitioning from investment banking to purchasing and operating a blue-collar electrical business, correcting standard misconceptions about compounding holding companies. Sam interjects with investor memories from the initial Exit Place pitch. | |
| Go-To-Market Evolution & Working with Business Brokers | 5 | 5 | 1 | 2 | Sam outlines Teamshares' two early structural pivots regarding business brokers and internal successor buyouts. Mike unpacks why direct for-sale-by-owner models fail in Main Street M&A compared to broker-led dealflow. | |
| Evolving the Leadership Model for Acquired Companies | 3 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Mike details why promoting internal second-in-commands to company presidents failed in micro-businesses due to overwhelming financial duties. Sam listens as Mike outlines the necessity of bringing in external leadership. | |
| Lessons Learned & Upsizing Acquisition Targets | 4 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Mike reviews operational lessons across 90 acquisitions, specifically highlighting the wide variance in outcomes when buying tiny 200k EBITDA operations. Sam prompts for reflection and Mike explains their upmarket shift. | |
| Building a Talent Pipeline and President Career Paths | 5 | 6 | 2 | 2 | Sam cites his background at Bain to discuss corporate recruiting funnels for young talent. Mike reframes the premise, explaining that placing young generalists from consulting/MBA backgrounds yielded poor financial consistency compared to seasoned local operators. | |
| Autonomy, Growth Trajectories, and Internal Network Synergies | 4 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Sam compares the president career ladders to GE rotational programs, while Mike outlines their group president and industry lead roles alongside emergent internal customer synergies across subsidiaries. | |
| Software, AI, and Toyota Production System Principles | 5 | 5 | 2 | 2 | Sam inquires how AI affects deal underwriting and tech deployment. Mike clarifies that Teamshares focuses on enduring, non-faddish businesses while heavily automating back-office accounting tasks and GAAP reconciliations. | |
| Generalist Permanent Ownership vs. Traditional Private Equity Roll-Ups | 5 | 6 | 4 | 2 | Sam questions how software applies across a diversified holding company versus industry-specific rollups. Mike attacks traditional private equity rollups, highlighting how PE firms fire staff, play multiple arbitrage games, and bid HVAC businesses up to 12x EBITDA on absurd AI theses. | |
| Future Growth Targets, Capital Allocation, and Ecosystem Expansion | 6 | 5 | 3 | 5 | Sam explicitly challenges Mike's comparison to Amazon by noting Teamshares generates real EBITDA, pressing him on how they establish capital allocation guardrails. Mike outlines their decentralized operational structure and disciplined reinvestment committee. | |
| The Case for Forever Ownership Over Private Equity Flipping | 4 | 6 | 4 | 2 | Sam asks whether Teamshares intends to hold all acquisitions forever. Mike strongly decries the private equity playbook of flipping companies multiple times as destructive to enterprise health and vastly worse than house flipping. |
Statements from this episode (22)
Lessin: Teamshares prepares to publicly list seven years after founding
“So we, you know, and now we're, I'm talking to you on the eve of you guys being publicly listed seven years in.”
Brown: There will never be enough buyers for retiring small-business owners
“And the Eureka moment was that look, this is a supply demand equation. They're just never going to be enough buyers for these businesses.”
Brown: 'For Sale By Owner' is a false proposition for small businesses
“The issue is, is that that kind of like for sale by owner Fizbo in the home market, it's a false value prop. There's a reason why people pay those fees. So that, that was sort of on the seller side. There's a reason why people say those fees, you kind of only,…”
Brown: One in three Stanford searchers fails to close within two years
“That's why a Stanford search fund takes two years and one in three Stanford searchers doesn't close the transaction two years.”
Brown: Small Acquisitions Usually Need External Presidents for Financial Leadership
“In the smaller businesses sort of like up To a million or two. They're not generally someone who's ready to take on the financial responsibility for running the business. And that's why externally four out of five, three out of five businesses, you know, we ne…”
Brown: Teamshares Owns 92 Businesses With About $60M Consolidated EBITDA
“90, 92 and about sixty million of consolidated EBITDA from the segments. From all the companies.”
Brown: Teamshares focuses on acquisitions generating $500K to $5M in EBITDA
“We focus now on sort of, you know, half a million to five million of EBITDA businesses.”
Brown: $200K EBITDA acquisitions yield venture-style variance instead of predictable compounding
“You could build a quote venture style portfolio, I think around the 200 K kind of EBITDA company. That sort of size of profile. That's not what we're trying to do. We're trying to have real consistency, predictable financials.”
Brown: Over 80% of Teamshares president hires work out
“Now over 80, over 80% of our present hires work out, which we think for hiring leaders, we think that's a very strong track record.”
Brown: Not a single Teamshares company faces a revenue challenge today
“We don't think that there's a revenue challenge today for any business that team chair zones, like literally not one.”
Brown: Teamshares tax return is longer than Berkshire Hathaway's
“Our tax returns longer than Berkshire Hathaway. Like, this is the third, there are like almost a hundred subsidiaries in this company, right?”
Brown: Teamshares sources 75,000 business-for-sale leads annually
“And then on the transaction side up front, it's all the sourcing, you know, 75,000 leads per year of actually for sale businesses, the valuations, the LOIs, the legal documents, that there's a human process.”
Brown: PE HVAC roll-ups bought at 12x EBITDA are entering liquidation
“Literally people are buying HVAC companies for 12 times EBITDA. These are businesses that are like project based businesses, right? And now you're saying chapter seven liquidations of private equity backed HVAC things.”
Brown: Constellation Software got clobbered over AI perception threats
“Constellation software, maybe because it's Canadian, but it went public at a five hundred million dollar valuation. I think it at some point hit eighty billion in market cap. And it's been clobbered over the last six months because of the AI perception threat.”
Brown: Teamshares plans to grow corporate EBITDA to $100M by 2027
“We put out a forecast, right, to go from nineteen million of corporate EBITDA. So there's, like, segment EBITDA, right, so it's just sort of roughly, you know, sixty million, but then after our parent overhead of 90 people that, you know, propelled the machine…”
Brown: Teamshares generated $19M pro forma EBITDA in 2025 with 90 staff
“After our parent overhead of 90 people that, you know, propelled the machine towards thousands of companies, it's nineteen million of EBITDA on a performance basis last year, 20, 25.”
Brown: Teamshares aims to issue corporate bonds as long-term financing
“Build market trust and work towards issuing over the long-term sort of issuing bonds, right? That's the end sort of financing goal for teachers, right?”
Brown: Going public does not directly help most companies grow
“I think most companies that go public, it does not directly help The business grow, but if you take something like Kinder Morgan, direct benefit acquisitions, acquisition financing.”
Brown: Teamshares sweeps operating cash centrally via Berkshire-style reinvestment committee
“By default, all cashflow comes up and again, employees benefit because of the dividends, all that stuff, but cashflow comes up and then to invest back for growth, that's a reallocation decision. And there's a separate sort of reinvestment committee that's Alex…”
Brown: Median Private Equity Funds Now Underperform the S&P 500
“The returns are really bad now. And so for that's, again, the capital's argument, the returns are terrible now, generally. The median fund. There's obviously ours, right? So it's almost, it seems like it's become venture-like where you've got a top decile that…”
Brown: Constant Private Equity Flipping Destabilizes Operating Companies
“And so you sell a business to PE with ten million of EBITDA and you sell it again at 25 and you sell it again at 75 and then a 102 hundred. So you can have business that are for sale three, four times. And that means the day you close the transaction, the comp…”
Brown: Teamshares commits to never selling its acquired small businesses
“We think the permanent ownership is good for team share shareholders. We think it's good for the businesses themselves to not be for sale. And these are the promises that we're making when we go and, you know, look an owner in the eyes that we're going to buy …”