May 26, 2017 · 1h 10m · mixergy
#1453 The future of chat (and interacting with your customers)
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Mixergy host Andrew Warner interviews ManyChat founder and CEO Mikael Yang to explore the shift from email marketing to Facebook Messenger bots, detailing high-converting micro-funnels, in-chat WebViews, and ManyChat's founding journey.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Andrew holds 43.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Andrew as informed peer 4.6 Guest teaching 5.3 Guest disagreement 1.4 Andrew pushing back 2.6
speaking balance: gold is Andrew, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 27:45 Dismissal of QR code skepticism
Mikael immediately dismisses Andrew's skepticism of physical scan codes by pointing out attendees swarming F8 swag booths when an appealing lead magnet is provided.
Hardest push from Andrew ▶ 38:15 Challenging the necessity of in-chat WebViewsAndrew directly challenges the entire premise of in-chat WebViews, asking why consumers wouldn't simply visit standard mobile websites instead.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 34:00 Schooling on conversational UI flawsMikael breaks down the fundamental design failure of 1-800-Flowers' 20-question conversational flow to explain why hybrid WebViews are technically superior.
Andrew holds their own ▶ 58:37 Demographic breakdown of US chat adoptionAndrew demonstrates sharp market knowledge by explaining how iPod Touch teen users and carrier restrictions drove US messaging app adoption beyond simple SMS economics.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Andrew as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Andrew pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Case Study: 40,000 Subscribers and High ROI via Messenger Ads | 6 | 5 | 1 | 2 | Andrew demonstrates his familiarity with direct response marketing by breaking down how multi-step ad funnels and micro-commitments work. Mikael educates Andrew on the surprisingly high CTRs (95-98%) across seven-layer sequential messenger flows. | |
| Messenger Rules, Engagement Rates, and Frequency Strategies | 5 | 6 | 2 | 3 | Andrew questions high frequency messaging and initially calls a 10% CTR low. Mikael corrects the premise by pointing out that a 10% CTR across 14 weekly broadcasts vastly outperforms email benchmarks. | |
| ManyChat Metrics, Pricing Structure, and Seed Funding | 5 | 3 | 2 | 4 | Andrew presses Mikael for specific business metrics, asking directly about revenue and paying customer numbers when Mikael tries to keep details confidential. The exchange transitions smoothly into host praise and an ad read for Toptal. | |
| The Vision for Messenger: Parametric Codes and Offline-to-Online | 4 | 6 | 1 | 3 | Andrew expresses skepticism about bots replacing web browsing, prompting Mikael to detail the offline-to-online capabilities of Facebook Messenger's camera-scannable parametric codes. | |
| Skepticism of QR Codes and Creating Effective Lead Magnets | 4 | 7 | 3 | 4 | Andrew challenges parametric codes by citing historical consumer indifference toward QR codes. Mikael counters by demonstrating how native camera scanning combined with immediate lead magnets creates high user adoption. | |
| The Asian Market Influence and the Power of WebViews | 5 | 8 | 2 | 2 | Mikael provides an in-depth breakdown of WeChat and Asian messenger ecosystems, explaining why WebViews are far superior to pure conversational UI for complex user flows like ordering flowers. | |
| The Role of Chatbots Alongside Traditional Websites | 5 | 6 | 2 | 5 | Andrew pushes back on WebViews by asking why users wouldn't simply visit regular websites on mobile browsers. Mikael clarifies the distinction between authenticated persistent messenger connections and anonymous web visitors. | |
| Sponsor: Streamlining Demonstrations and Booking with Acuity Scheduling | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Solo host sponsor read for Acuity Scheduling. No guest interaction takes place. | |
| Rich In-Chat App Integrations: Uber, OpenTable, and Calendars | 6 | 4 | 0 | 1 | Andrew enthusiastically showcases how Uber and OpenTable integrate natively within chat conversations on mobile, with Mikael adding context around native scheduling interfaces. | |
| Mikael Yang's Entrepreneurial Origins: Magic Tricks to Telegram Bots | 4 | 6 | 1 | 2 | Mikael shares his backstory from card magic and Russian entertainment sites to launching ManyBot on Telegram when the API first opened up, highlighting his early technical pivots. | |
| Viral Growth Mechanics and Global Chat App Adoption Patterns | 6 | 7 | 2 | 3 | Mikael explains how international SMS costs drove global WhatsApp and Telegram adoption compared to the US market. Andrew builds on this by discussing demographic usage patterns like iPod touches and teen texting. | |
| Crucial Lessons from 500 Startups: Monetization and Unit Economics | 5 | 6 | 1 | 2 | Mikael discusses moving away from vanity bot counts toward paying customer unit economics at 500 Startups. Andrew validates this mindset by citing his own disdain for free, unsustainable software. |
Statements from this episode (15)
Yang: Marketer Sean Patrick Simpson amassed over 40k Messenger subscribers
“So, we have this just messenger alchemist Sean Patrick Simpson, who gets, he got over 40,000 messenger subscribers on his messenger list”
Yang: ManyChat user generated $11k in sales from $2k ad spend
“So one of the campaigns that he did, he spent, like, 2000 on ads and made 11,000 in sales in just, like, a few months. Days.”
Yang: Messenger bot multi-step micro-interactions achieve 95% to 98% CTR
“It's 95 to 98%, and it doesn't get lower.”
Yang: Facebook Messenger bans promotional messages outside 24-hour window
“After 24 hours you can only send content that people subscribe to, And that cannot be, like, promotional or ads”
Yang: 10K-user health bot achieved 80% opens sending 14 messages weekly
“So we had one bot that had over 10,000 subscribers, and they messaged, like in the span of a week, they messaged their audience 14 times. And? And they got 80% open rates and 10%, 10% CTR on each one of those messages.”
Yang: EDM record label bot gets 56% CTR on weekly audio previews
“We have one client, it's a music label, a record label. They sent out one broadcast every week, so a weekly broadcast with a 32nd preview of an upcoming single from their record label, and it's an electronic dance music label, so they put out a lot of singles …”
Prediction: Messenger will replace email and websites within seven years
“Like, the potential of bots and of messenger is still by far 90%, 95% of it is untapped. We think that messenger is gonna become the central hub of communication between businesses and customers, and in a few years, three, five, seven years, it's gonna capture…”
Yang: Facebook drove high F8 engagement using Messenger parametric codes for swag
“What Facebook did is they put up this parametric code that said, like, Hey, if you want free swag, just scan this code, and you're gonna we're gonna send you a message of what you've got, and it can be a t-shirt, socks, or something else, and everyone was like…”
Yang: WebViews will be huge for Messenger by enabling complex use cases
“I think web use are going to be huge for messenger because they unlock so much of more complex use cases that are not just not possible through bots.”
Yang: Website visitors are anonymous, but Messenger bot visitors become active connections
“If you're, if you have visitors on websites, those visitors are not your, like, They're not your customers yet. You don't know them. You know who they are. You don't know, like, what's, you don't have a connection with them. But if they're in Messenger, everyo…”
Yang: Low ARPU consumer apps require pure viral growth
“With consumer projects, like, when you have the like, revenue per user less than a dollar a year, if you're, like, running ads or something, you have to have millions of users. And that you can get only, like, getting them for free, basically, virally.”
Yang: Facebook has 65M business Pages adaptable into bots
“It's 1.2 billion people every month using the messenger platform. They have over sixty five million businesses using pages and each page is a potential is a one click away from becoming a bot.”
Yang: Emerging markets skip websites and go straight to messenger bots
“There are some countries where Telegram is the number one communication channel, and people need a way to be represented there, so bots come into that space and they start to actually take on the role of websites, because people are not building websites, they…”