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Apr 13, 2020 · 1h 9m · how-i-built-this

Sweetgreen: Nicolas Jammet and Jonathan Neman

Jonathan Neman · 25m spoken Guy Raz · 20m spoken Nicolas Jammet · 16m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

On this episode of 'How I Built This,' host Guy Raz speaks with Sweetgreen co-founders Nicolas Jammet and Jonathan Neman about transforming a modest 500-square-foot salad shop into a multi-billion-dollar, tech-driven fast-casual empire while weathering devastating operational crises, leadership walkouts, and global disruptions.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 33.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 3.7 Guest teaching 2.2 Guest disagreement 1.2 Guy pushing back 1.8
05100:0015:0030:0045:001:00:005:10–12:15 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Founding Backgrounds, Immigrant Roots, and Georgetown Meeting Guy Raz sets a conversational, biographical tone asking about Nicolas and Jonathan's respective immigrant upbringings and early entrepreneurial instincts. The dynamic is fully collaborative with the host guiding the narrative.12:16–20:28 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Conceptualizing Sweetgreen and Raising Startup Capital The founders detail pitching their landlord Marcy and discovering the severe structural deficits of the Georgetown shack. Raz prompts for logistical specifics regarding the lease terms and budget shortfalls.20:29–33:25 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Menu Development, Opening Struggles, and First Winter Survival Jammet and Neman explain their DIY solutions, from drywalling parking spaces for refrigeration to surviving a 70% winter revenue drop. Raz facilitates the storytelling with supportive inquiries about profitability and operations.33:26–36:11 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 DuPont Circle Expansion and Second Store Real Estate Hurdles Raz questions the strategic benefit of starting a business in D.C. given its non-startup reputation at the time, prompting Neman to explain why being a big fish in a small pond protected them from getting crushed.36:29–49:08 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 The Sweetlife Festival, Institutional Capital, and Regional Scaling The conversation covers raising institutional capital from Steve Case and the creation of the Sweetlife Festival. Raz probes whether rapid national expansion threatened their organic sourcing commitments.49:09–1:03:40 · Guy as informed peer 5/10 Relocating Headquarters to Los Angeles and the Executive Walkout Raz presents a sharp counterpoint to their digital pivot, noting that veteran executives and board member Gary Hirshberg resigned because continuing to scale the proven physical restaurant model seemed safer. The founders defend their fear of being blockbustered.5:10–12:15 · Guest teaching 1/10 Founding Backgrounds, Immigrant Roots, and Georgetown Meeting Guy Raz sets a conversational, biographical tone asking about Nicolas and Jonathan's respective immigrant upbringings and early entrepreneurial instincts. The dynamic is fully collaborative with the host guiding the narrative.12:16–20:28 · Guest teaching 2/10 Conceptualizing Sweetgreen and Raising Startup Capital The founders detail pitching their landlord Marcy and discovering the severe structural deficits of the Georgetown shack. Raz prompts for logistical specifics regarding the lease terms and budget shortfalls.20:29–33:25 · Guest teaching 2/10 Menu Development, Opening Struggles, and First Winter Survival Jammet and Neman explain their DIY solutions, from drywalling parking spaces for refrigeration to surviving a 70% winter revenue drop. Raz facilitates the storytelling with supportive inquiries about profitability and operations.33:26–36:11 · Guest teaching 2/10 DuPont Circle Expansion and Second Store Real Estate Hurdles Raz questions the strategic benefit of starting a business in D.C. given its non-startup reputation at the time, prompting Neman to explain why being a big fish in a small pond protected them from getting crushed.36:29–49:08 · Guest teaching 3/10 The Sweetlife Festival, Institutional Capital, and Regional Scaling The conversation covers raising institutional capital from Steve Case and the creation of the Sweetlife Festival. Raz probes whether rapid national expansion threatened their organic sourcing commitments.49:09–1:03:40 · Guest teaching 3/10 Relocating Headquarters to Los Angeles and the Executive Walkout Raz presents a sharp counterpoint to their digital pivot, noting that veteran executives and board member Gary Hirshberg resigned because continuing to scale the proven physical restaurant model seemed safer. The founders defend their fear of being blockbustered.5:10–12:15 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Founding Backgrounds, Immigrant Roots, and Georgetown Meeting Guy Raz sets a conversational, biographical tone asking about Nicolas and Jonathan's respective immigrant upbringings and early entrepreneurial instincts. The dynamic is fully collaborative with the host guiding the narrative.12:16–20:28 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Conceptualizing Sweetgreen and Raising Startup Capital The founders detail pitching their landlord Marcy and discovering the severe structural deficits of the Georgetown shack. Raz prompts for logistical specifics regarding the lease terms and budget shortfalls.20:29–33:25 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Menu Development, Opening Struggles, and First Winter Survival Jammet and Neman explain their DIY solutions, from drywalling parking spaces for refrigeration to surviving a 70% winter revenue drop. Raz facilitates the storytelling with supportive inquiries about profitability and operations.33:26–36:11 · Guest disagreement 1/10 DuPont Circle Expansion and Second Store Real Estate Hurdles Raz questions the strategic benefit of starting a business in D.C. given its non-startup reputation at the time, prompting Neman to explain why being a big fish in a small pond protected them from getting crushed.36:29–49:08 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Sweetlife Festival, Institutional Capital, and Regional Scaling The conversation covers raising institutional capital from Steve Case and the creation of the Sweetlife Festival. Raz probes whether rapid national expansion threatened their organic sourcing commitments.49:09–1:03:40 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Relocating Headquarters to Los Angeles and the Executive Walkout Raz presents a sharp counterpoint to their digital pivot, noting that veteran executives and board member Gary Hirshberg resigned because continuing to scale the proven physical restaurant model seemed safer. The founders defend their fear of being blockbustered.5:10–12:15 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Founding Backgrounds, Immigrant Roots, and Georgetown Meeting Guy Raz sets a conversational, biographical tone asking about Nicolas and Jonathan's respective immigrant upbringings and early entrepreneurial instincts. The dynamic is fully collaborative with the host guiding the narrative.12:16–20:28 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Conceptualizing Sweetgreen and Raising Startup Capital The founders detail pitching their landlord Marcy and discovering the severe structural deficits of the Georgetown shack. Raz prompts for logistical specifics regarding the lease terms and budget shortfalls.20:29–33:25 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Menu Development, Opening Struggles, and First Winter Survival Jammet and Neman explain their DIY solutions, from drywalling parking spaces for refrigeration to surviving a 70% winter revenue drop. Raz facilitates the storytelling with supportive inquiries about profitability and operations.33:26–36:11 · Guy pushing back 2/10 DuPont Circle Expansion and Second Store Real Estate Hurdles Raz questions the strategic benefit of starting a business in D.C. given its non-startup reputation at the time, prompting Neman to explain why being a big fish in a small pond protected them from getting crushed.36:29–49:08 · Guy pushing back 2/10 The Sweetlife Festival, Institutional Capital, and Regional Scaling The conversation covers raising institutional capital from Steve Case and the creation of the Sweetlife Festival. Raz probes whether rapid national expansion threatened their organic sourcing commitments.49:09–1:03:40 · Guy pushing back 4/10 Relocating Headquarters to Los Angeles and the Executive Walkout Raz presents a sharp counterpoint to their digital pivot, noting that veteran executives and board member Gary Hirshberg resigned because continuing to scale the proven physical restaurant model seemed safer. The founders defend their fear of being blockbustered.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 90.5% · guest 9.5%0:00 · Guy 90.5% · guest 9.5%3:00 · Guy 80.5% · guest 19.5%3:00 · Guy 80.5% · guest 19.5%6:00 · Guy 25.7% · guest 74.3%6:00 · Guy 25.7% · guest 74.3%9:00 · Guy 27.6% · guest 72.4%9:00 · Guy 27.6% · guest 72.4%12:00 · Guy 23.3% · guest 76.7%12:00 · Guy 23.3% · guest 76.7%15:00 · Guy 30.4% · guest 69.6%15:00 · Guy 30.4% · guest 69.6%18:00 · Guy 16.1% · guest 83.9%18:00 · Guy 16.1% · guest 83.9%21:00 · Guy 27.7% · guest 72.3%21:00 · Guy 27.7% · guest 72.3%24:00 · Guy 18.1% · guest 81.9%24:00 · Guy 18.1% · guest 81.9%27:00 · Guy 13.7% · guest 86.3%27:00 · Guy 13.7% · guest 86.3%30:00 · Guy 14.9% · guest 85.1%30:00 · Guy 14.9% · guest 85.1%33:00 · Guy 24.6% · guest 75.4%33:00 · Guy 24.6% · guest 75.4%36:00 · Guy 57.4% · guest 42.6%36:00 · Guy 57.4% · guest 42.6%39:00 · Guy 36.6% · guest 63.4%39:00 · Guy 36.6% · guest 63.4%42:00 · Guy 41% · guest 59%42:00 · Guy 41% · guest 59%45:00 · Guy 31.8% · guest 68.2%45:00 · Guy 31.8% · guest 68.2%48:00 · Guy 24.1% · guest 75.9%48:00 · Guy 24.1% · guest 75.9%51:00 · Guy 25.3% · guest 74.7%51:00 · Guy 25.3% · guest 74.7%54:00 · Guy 33.1% · guest 66.9%54:00 · Guy 33.1% · guest 66.9%57:00 · Guy 45.6% · guest 54.4%57:00 · Guy 45.6% · guest 54.4%1:00:00 · Guy 20.7% · guest 79.3%1:00:00 · Guy 20.7% · guest 79.3%1:03:00 · Guy 41.5% · guest 58.5%1:03:00 · Guy 41.5% · guest 58.5%1:06:00 · Guy 22.2% · guest 77.8%1:06:00 · Guy 22.2% · guest 77.8%1:09:00 · Guy 56.9% · guest 43.1%1:09:00 · Guy 56.9% · guest 43.1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 40:08 Refusing to franchise the brand

Jammet and Neman explain their immediate, blunt rejection of Revolution's initial idea to franchise Sweetgreen, citing their insistence on strict supply chain control.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 57:09 Challenging the wisdom of the tech pivot

Raz plays devil's advocate, arguing from the perspective of their resigned executives and board members who preferred the reliable playbook of opening physical stores.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 34:32 The strategic value of Washington D.C.

Neman reframes Raz's premise about D.C.'s lack of startup prestige, demonstrating that operating outside New York and Los Angeles allowed them to make mistakes without facing lethal competition.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 57:30 Citing Gary Hirshberg's board departure

Raz demonstrates outside reporting knowledge by citing Gary Hirshberg's departure from the board to pressure the founders on whether their tech pivot was premature.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Founding Backgrounds, Immigrant Roots, and Georgetown Meeting 3111 Guy Raz sets a conversational, biographical tone asking about Nicolas and Jonathan's respective immigrant upbringings and early entrepreneurial instincts. The dynamic is fully collaborative with the host guiding the narrative.
Conceptualizing Sweetgreen and Raising Startup Capital 3211 The founders detail pitching their landlord Marcy and discovering the severe structural deficits of the Georgetown shack. Raz prompts for logistical specifics regarding the lease terms and budget shortfalls.
Menu Development, Opening Struggles, and First Winter Survival 3211 Jammet and Neman explain their DIY solutions, from drywalling parking spaces for refrigeration to surviving a 70% winter revenue drop. Raz facilitates the storytelling with supportive inquiries about profitability and operations.
DuPont Circle Expansion and Second Store Real Estate Hurdles 4212 Raz questions the strategic benefit of starting a business in D.C. given its non-startup reputation at the time, prompting Neman to explain why being a big fish in a small pond protected them from getting crushed.
The Sweetlife Festival, Institutional Capital, and Regional Scaling 4312 The conversation covers raising institutional capital from Steve Case and the creation of the Sweetlife Festival. Raz probes whether rapid national expansion threatened their organic sourcing commitments.
Relocating Headquarters to Los Angeles and the Executive Walkout 5324 Raz presents a sharp counterpoint to their digital pivot, noting that veteran executives and board member Gary Hirshberg resigned because continuing to scale the proven physical restaurant model seemed safer. The founders defend their fear of being blockbustered.

Statements from this episode (13)

Disclosure
Sweetgreen's founders pitched 250 people to secure 50 initial angel investors
“We probably spoke to 250 people, and we got at the end, we got 50 people to say yes.”
Jonathan Neman Apr 13, 2020 ▶ 20:04
Disclosure
Sweetgreen paid its general contractor in equity after a $50,000 shortfall
“We ended up raising almost 300,000. And it did cost about 350,000 dollars, so we were short 50,000 dollars or so, which means we owed the contractor 50,000 dollars at the end, which means the contractor owned a piece of our company at the end.”
Jonathan Neman Apr 13, 2020 ▶ 20:13
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Sweetgreen sold just over 100 salads on opening day in August 2007
“The first day we sold just over a hundred salads.”
Jonathan Neman Apr 13, 2020 ▶ 29:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Sweetgreen sales dropped by almost 70% during its first winter
“It dropped by about seven, almost 70%.”
Jonathan Neman Apr 13, 2020 ▶ 31:15
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Almost half of Sweetgreen's current food sales are warm menu items
“And today, almost half of our food is warm food.”
Jonathan Neman Apr 13, 2020 ▶ 31:37
What-if
Sweetgreen's original concept would have failed in New York or LA
“The sweet green of, that we started in D.C. Would not have been successful in New York or L.A.”
Jonathan Neman Apr 13, 2020 ▶ 34:36
Assertion Contradicted
Sweetgreen operated as a D.C.-only brand for over five years
“We were a D.C. Only brand for over five years.”
Jonathan Neman Apr 13, 2020 ▶ 34:46
Disclosure
Sweetgreen raised $750,000 to open its second restaurant in D.C.
“We raised about 750 grand for it, and started to look for a space that was bigger, with seats, we were gonna maybe evolve the menu a bit, and we actually opened it right at the largest farmers market in D.C., the DuPont Circle Farmers Market.”
Nicolas Jammet Apr 13, 2020 ▶ 35:13
Assertion Supported
Sweetgreen never franchised to maintain tight supply chain and cooking control
“It's never been part of what we wanted to do because you just can't control what we do, and what we do from a supply chain and scratch-cooking perspective, we were just always scared of franchising our business and have never done it.”
Jonathan Neman Apr 13, 2020 ▶ 40:16
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Sweetgreen's three co-founders still share a single office and desk
“And actually, today, we still sit in one office at one desk,”
Nicolas Jammet Apr 13, 2020 ▶ 48:56
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Sweetgreen's entire 35-person corporate team relocated from D.C. to LA
“All 35 people at the time moved across the country”
Jonathan Neman Apr 13, 2020 ▶ 50:25
Assertion Supported
Sweetgreen's Outpost initiative scaled to nearly 1,000 locations under a year
“Outpost, for example, is one of those things that was a little trial that now has almost a thousand Outposts in less than a year.”
Jonathan Neman Apr 13, 2020 ▶ 1:01:06
Assertion Supported
Sweetgreen's fast-growing Outpost business vanished entirely overnight due to COVID-19
“So as the whole world moved to work from home, our outpost business completely disappeared overnight. It was a large part of our business and the fastest growing part of our business, and so it literally overnight disappeared.”
Jonathan Neman Apr 13, 2020 ▶ 1:05:43
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