Aug 10, 2020 · 1h 10m · how-i-built-this
Briogeo: Nancy Twine
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of NPR's 'How I Built This,' host Guy Raz interviews entrepreneur Nancy Twine, who pivoted from a high-powered career on Wall Street following a profound family loss to create Briogeo, a pioneering clean and inclusive hair care brand that grew into a multimillion-dollar prestige retail sensation at Sephora.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 28.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 3.1 Guest teaching 3.3 Guest disagreement 1.1 Guy pushing back 1.0
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 1:07:54 Rejecting the luck framing
Nancy politely reframes Guy's standard luck vs. skill question, asserting that luck cannot explain consistent, repeatable success over a decade.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 47:35 Inquiring about ethnic aisle stereotypingGuy presses Nancy on whether retail buyers made assumptions about her brand's audience based purely on her race as an African American woman.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 1:00:49 Explaining EcoCert and clean synthetic preservativesNancy educates Guy on formulation realities, explaining how EcoCert-approved synthetic preservatives prevent degradation while maintaining clean product standards.
Guy holds their own ▶ 52:03 Recognizing Sephora's industry standingGuy demonstrates his knowledge of prestige retail cosmetics, identifying Sephora as the absolute pinnacle for any scaling beauty founder.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Family Roots: Mother's Medical Practice and Grandmother's Homemade Chemistry | 3 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Guy Raz asks about Nancy's background and connection to West Virginia, noting demographic facts about the state. Nancy shares her grandmother's thrifty homemade concoctions and how that inspired her mother to become a chemist and physician. | |
| University of Virginia, Hip-Hop A Cappella, and Early Entrepreneurial Drive | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Guy inquires about college and career aspirations, playfully asking about acapella blazers. Nancy recounts realizing singing wouldn't pay the bills and pivoting back to her childhood knack for entrepreneurial crafting. | |
| Wall Street Career at Goldman Sachs During Financial Crisis | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Guy probes into Nancy's early Goldman Sachs career during the 2008 crash. Nancy explains the relentless grind required to make herself indispensable on the trading floor. | |
| Sudden Loss of Mother and Sparking the Briogeo Vision | 2 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Guy empathetically explores the emotional aftermath of Nancy losing her mother in a sudden accident. Nancy explains how rediscovering her late mother's unfinished skincare formulas and memories of making kitchen recipes sparked her beauty concept. | |
| Market Research at the Library and Business Plan Development | 3 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Guy asks about researching market data and what natural meant in 2010. Nancy educates him on how the term natural lacks legal regulation compared to organic, explaining why she avoided synthetic silicones in favor of nutrient-rich natural oils. | |
| Formulating the Core Products and Balancing Demanding Wall Street | 3 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Guy asks about communicating formulation needs without a chemistry background and admits he does not know what a hair mask is. Nancy explains hair mask viscosity, her proprietary NOVA complex, and why she narrowed her launch down to four core SKUs. | |
| Pitching Angel Investors and Securing Backing from Phil Palmetto | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Guy and Nancy commiserate over the absurdity of pitching hair care to rooms full of male tech investors. Nancy describes meeting Phil Palmetto, who looked past his own lack of hair to invest in her potential. | |
| Las Vegas Cosmoprof Trade Show and Landing Urban Outfitters | 4 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Guy notes the steep costs of trade show booths and asks if buyers stereotyped her products as ethnic-only. Nancy details how she purposely designed inclusive booth imagery and caught initial interest from Urban Outfitters and an undercover Sephora team. | |
| Fulfilling Initial Retail Orders and Direct Beauty Editor PR | 3 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Guy highlights Nancy's methodical problem-solving style while fulfilling the Urban Outfitters order. Nancy shares her PR strategy of scheduling in-person desk-side meetings with beauty editors rather than relying on standard mass emails. | |
| Pitching Sephora, San Francisco Meeting, and Leaving Goldman Sachs | 4 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Guy describes Sephora as the Valhalla of the beauty industry. Nancy recounts tracking down the buyer's email, flying across the country for a coffee meeting, and ultimately quitting Goldman Sachs when Sephora offered an online test. | |
| Scaling via Ipsy Sampling, Sephora Expansion, and Private Equity | 4 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Guy asks technical questions about product shelf stability and scaling production. Nancy schools him on European EcoCert safety standards for clean synthetic preservatives before detailing her sampling drive through Ipsy. | |
| Thriving in 2020, Reaching $40M, and Racial Justice Conversations | 4 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Guy references Nancy's social media post regarding exhaustion during the 2020 racial justice protests. Nancy reflects on balancing high corporate demand with the reality that Black entrepreneurs shouldn't bear the sole burden of solving systemic racism. | |
| Hard Work, Mindset, Honoring Legacy, and Family Full Circle | 3 | 4 | 2 | 1 | When Guy asks whether her trajectory was attributable to luck or hard work, Nancy pushes back on luck, emphasizing persistent self-belief and execution. Guy concludes with a heartfelt reflection on her mother's enduring legacy. |
Statements from this episode (20)
Twine Joined UVA's First Hip-Hop A Cappella Group
“We were actually UVA's first hip-hop acapella group”
Twine Sold Homemade 'Clueless' Feather Pens in Middle School
“In middle school, this is when the movie Clueless came out, and those cool, like, feather pins were so popular, but no one, like, knew where they could get them, because Etsy wasn't around, and I went to Michael's, my local craft store, and got ribbon, pens, a…”
Twine's Goal to Avoid Layoffs Led to Exploitation at Goldman Sachs
“My goal of making myself indispensable to protect my career during a tumultuous time probably put me in the position of being taken advantage of at times. There were, I'm sure, some of my classmates who would never come in on a Sunday night randomly because th…”
The Textured Hair Market Was Not Established During Twine's Youth
“And the market for textured hair wasn't really established back then. So I found myself struggling with the products that were available, and either needing to supplement them with other ingredients, or just create my own products from scratch.”
Twine: The Term 'Natural' Lacks the Strict Legal Regulation of 'Organic'
“The word natural is not regulated the way that organic is. So natural means different things to different people.”
Silicones Create Cosmetic Illusions While Natural Oils Improve True Hair Health
“Instead of, you know, pumping our products with silicones, which are synthetic polymers that give the illusion of shine on the hair We actually used real natural oils to do that because not only is it natural, but the benefits, the vitamins, the nutrients the …”
Briogeo Launched With One Universal Shampoo and Three Conditioners
“What I decided to do was to create one shampoo for all hair types. And then I had three conditioners that were texture specific. So with four products, I was able to hit a pretty diverse client base.”
Twine Kept Briogeo Secret From Her Goldman Sachs Team
“No one in my immediate team knew that I was working on this project. I had a couple of friends at Goldman that I confided in, but only a couple that I knew would not say anything, because I was serious about my work, and I didn't want to compromise that, and I…”
Twine Bootstrapped Briogeo With $25,000 Before Seeking Outside Capital
“So by that point, the most money I spent was on the business plan, which was about 5000. Some of the initial concepts for the packaging, which was, you know, north of 10 K. Yeah. And then you factor in everything else. I was probably close to 25 K.”
Twine Paid a Consultant Under $500 to Name Briogeo
“A friend of mine ended up putting me in touch with a guy who was a consultant, and For, you know, less than 500 bucks, he picked my brain on what I wanted this brand to be, and gave me a ton of options, and Briogeo stood out.”
Briogeo's First Trade Show Debut Cost Roughly $15,000
“There was travel. I had to design the space. I needed staffing. So I think when it was all said and done, it was probably closer to 15,000.”
Briogeo Left Its First Trade Show With Only Urban Outfitters' Interest
“I left with no orders, but I did leave with interest from Urban Outfitters.”
Angel Investor Phil Palmetto Initially Invested $100,000 Into Briogeo
“So he gave me the first time about a 100,000 dollars.”
Briogeo Secured Early Press via Face-to-Face Editor Desk Visits
“And because I was in New York, I asked them if they could set me up with desk side appointments where I would actually meet the editor and be able to have a face-to-face connection. And so I was able to create relationships with editors at a dozen of publicati…”
Sephora Tested Briogeo Online With a Conditional 25-Store Retail Expansion
“So it was a test, and the test was online only. So if I hit my targets, the next step would be to launch Briogeo in 25 of the then 400 Sephora stores.”
Sampling to 200,000 Ipsy Users Drove Briogeo's Sephora Retail Conversions
“Getting that product in the hands of about 200,000 people translated into incredible conversions at Sephora.”
Sephora Rolls Out In-Store Brands Twice Yearly
“Sephora has a cadence of twice a year in which they roll out brands into stores in March and in September.”
Briogeo Uses Safe Synthetic Preservatives for a 24-Month Shelf Life
“Briogeo products are not 100% natural, and where we cannot find a effective, clean substitute, we will opt with a synthetic version, so long as we really do our diligence to make sure that it's a safe synthetic. Right. And there is an organization in Europe ca…”