Jun 5, 2023 · 1h 9m · how-i-built-this
Tory Burch: Tory Burch
0:00 / 0:00
gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of "How I Built This," host Guy Raz interviews fashion designer and entrepreneur Tory Burch about the founding and evolution of her multi-billion dollar global lifestyle empire. Burch reflects on pioneering the concept of attainable luxury, overcoming fierce personal and industry obstacles, and channeling her success into empowering female entrepreneurs.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 38.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 1.8 Guest teaching 1.3 Guest disagreement 0.2 Guy pushing back 0.1
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 45:48 Tory rejects assumptions of being an absentee figurehead
Burch forcefully pushes back against condescending industry gossip that questioned her work ethic, pointing out the absurdity of being asked if she went to the office while working 13-hour days.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 59:55 Guy plays devil's advocate for Chris Burch during C. Wonder disputeGuy steps in to defend Chris Burch's perspective as an experienced entrepreneur with rights to start businesses, prompting Tory to clarify the proprietary conflict.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 39:26 Tory educates on the gendered double standard of ambitionBurch eloquently reframes how society stigmatizes ambition in women versus praising it in men, outlining how she intentionally adopted the term to inspire other female entrepreneurs.
Guy holds their own ▶ 2:11 Guy provides nuanced historical overview of the brand's rise and positioningGuy synthesizes Burch's career timeline, pricing strategy in aspirational affordability, and corporate turbulence with deep biographical and industry command.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Cross-Promotion: The Great Creators with Shania Twain | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Guy Raz sets up Tory Burch's background, detailing her trajectory from early fashion PR executive to billionaire entrepreneur while framing her market positioning. Burch shares a brief introductory reflection on the exhausting early days working out of her apartment. | |
| Growing Up Outside Philadelphia and Tomboy Roots | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Guy inquires about Burch's upbringing outside Philadelphia, her father's lifestyle, and whether she was stereotypically feminine as a child. Burch clarifies her father's unique lifestyle as an impeccably dressed gentleman farmer and details her tomboy childhood. | |
| Graduating Penn and Entering Fashion with Zoran | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Guy asks about Burch's transition from Penn to New York fashion and her first job with designer Zoran. Burch corrects the premise that Zoran ran a retail boutique, clarifying that he operated exclusively as a minimalist wholesale showroom. | |
| Working at Ralph Lauren and Early Design Curiosities | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Guy references fashion industry stereotypes and asks about Burch's time in PR at Ralph Lauren. Burch dispels the toxic Devil Wears Prada caricature, fondly describing the cult-like devotion of 'Polo Krishnas' and revealing an early rejected design project. | |
| PR at LVMH, Marrying Chris Burch, and Stepping Back | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Guy summarizes Burch's career moves to Vera Wang and LVMH's Loewe, alongside meeting Chris Burch. Burch explains having to step back from an offered executive role when discovering she was pregnant with her third son. | |
| Exploring Entrepreneurial Ideas and a Vision for Impact | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Guy explores how Burch's entrepreneurial ambitions originated during her break from corporate work. Burch explains her instinct to build a large commercial enterprise primarily to finance a philanthropic foundation. | |
| The Market Gap: Attainable Luxury and the Jax Rejection | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Guy and Burch discuss identifying the attainable luxury whitespace between mall brands and haute couture. Burch recounts her failed attempt to purchase and revive vintage brand Jax from its original founder before pivoting to build her own concept. | |
| Mid-Show Tease and Follower Reminder | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Mid-show transition and promotional segment where Guy recaps the pivot from the Jax rejection to formulating the original Tory Burch direct-to-consumer product strategy across multiple categories. | |
| Funding the Launch and Designing the Double-T Logo | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Guy questions Burch on early launch capital and the development of the iconic double-T logo. Burch explains the Moroccan and David Hicks design inspirations, rejecting the idea that she was calculatingly designing an iconic brand symbol like a Nike swoosh. | |
| Hong Kong Manufacturing and Establishing the Product Line | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Guy asks about manufacturing in Hong Kong and why Burch avoided initial department store wholesale deals. Burch educates Guy on her deliberate strategy of patience and maintaining direct brand control rather than taking the faster wholesale path. | |
| Opening on Elizabeth Street and Confronting the Word "Ambitious" | 2 | 2 | 1 | 0 | Guy and Burch discuss the opening of the Elizabeth Street store and a New York Times interview that labeled her ambitious. Burch explains how she had initially internalized gendered stigmas around female ambition before actively reframing it as a badge of pride. | |
| Apartment Headquarters, Bergdorf Goodman, and The Oprah Effect | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Guy asks about the chaotic logistics of running the business out of Burch's apartment and the impact of the Oprah Winfrey endorsement. Burch recounts the explosive e-commerce traffic of eight million visitors following the Oprah feature. | |
| Tuning Out Gossip and Developing Thick Skin | 2 | 2 | 1 | 0 | Guy asks about early industry snobbery dismissing her business as a socialite vanity project. Burch explains learning to tune out toxic gossip and forcefully pushes back against assumptions that she was an absentee figurehead while working 13-hour days. | |
| Mid-Roll Tease: Crisis and Partnership Breakdown | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Guy and Burch discuss early grassroots marketing and the design of the iconic Reva ballet flat with Vince Camuto. Burch explains refusing traditional licensing deals to avoid diluting the brand's long-term equity. | |
| Navigating Divorce, Public Scrutiny, and the Loss of Her Father | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Guy sensitively probes the painful convergence of Burch's public divorce from Chris Burch and the sudden passing of her father. Burch opens up about the emotional toll, managing six children, and developing personal resilience. | |
| Bringing Brother Robert In and Launching the Foundation | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Guy asks about bringing her brother Robert into leadership and launching the Tory Burch Foundation. Burch explains early skepticism from business leaders who claimed social impact and commercial enterprise could not coexist. | |
| The C. Wonder Dispute, Lawsuits, and Buyout Resolution | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Guy raises Chris Burch's launch of C. Wonder, playing slight devil's advocate to represent Chris's perspective before discussing the legal battle. Burch explains the intellectual property threat and private equity buyout that ultimately resolved the dispute. | |
| Customer-Centric Retail and Stepping Down as CEO | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Guy asks about store hospitality features and Burch's decision in 2018 to step down as CEO in favor of Pierre-Yves Roussel. Burch admits running operations was not her passion and describes the creative relief of dedicating 100% of her focus to design. | |
| Future Outlook, Met Gala Memories, and the Role of Luck | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Guy asks whether the company might eventually be sold, the balance of luck versus hard work in her career, and a playful question about Met Gala outfits. Burch emphasizes her commitment to remaining independent and private. |
Statements from this episode (22)
Burch: Ralph Lauren Rejected Early Design Project Submission
“While I was at Ralph, there was one time that I tried to work in design and submitted a project, and I was turned down. And I'll never, I hadn't, I don't think I've ever told anyone that.”
Burch: Chris Burch was an early pioneer of apparel production in Asia
“He started to travel to Asia, and he was one of the first people to really do production over there, and he and his brother Bob just built a pretty terrific company.”
Burch: LVMH offered her the role of Head of US for Loewe
“They offered me a bigger job because they were looking for a head of U.S. Head of U.S.? For Loewe.”
Tory Burch: Aimed to Build a Large Company to Fund a Foundation
“I had all of these things happening at once, and I kind of knew that I wanted to start a company, and I also knew that I wanted to start a foundation one day, so I had this instinct that that if I could build something big, I could also then have the financial…”
Burch: Luxury is defined by emotion and feeling, not price point
“And sort of, I also felt luxury was not necessarily about a price point. And for me, it was, I was always taught through my mom and dad that it was really, About emotion, and how something makes you feel, and time, and I just had a different perspective on wha…”
Burch: First business idea was to acquire and relaunch Jax
“That was what I really wanted to do, is relaunch Jax. That was really what my first idea was, is to bring Jax back.”
Launching DTC in early 2000s defied standard fashion industry advice
“And it was the beginning of this concept of a retail store and this idea of Direct to consumer, which was also the opposite of what I was told to do at the time.”
Burch: Planned launch spanned nine to 11 categories across fashion
“I mean, literally, it was about maybe nine to 11 different categories, whether it was Footwear. Handbags. Swim. Ready to wear. Eyewear. It was jewelry.”
Tory and Chris Burch invested $2 million of personal capital to launch
“Chris and I put in two million dollars, and we also were funding the beginnings of it, and that was everything from the branding.”
Burch: Core collection piece was inspired by eight-dollar flea market tunic
“I had found a vintage tunic in a Paris flea market for about eight dollars. That became one of the core pieces of our collection.”
Tory Burch: 2000s Culture Viewed Ambition as Acceptable for Men but Not Women
“I think we, I think it was in the ether that way back then. That it was okay for men to be ambitious, but not okay for women.”
Burch: Tory Burch ran early business from apartment with 15 staff
“I was working out of my apartment for the first two years. We didn't have an office, so it was doing everything in our kitchen or in our living room. It was taking my kids to school and then getting on the phone until four in the morning, falling asleep on the…”
Burch: Bergdorf Goodman started wholesale orders from apartment visit
“They wanted to buy, and so they came into my apartment to see the two racks and the accessories, and that was the beginning of our wholesale. Collection.”
Tory Burch website drew 8 million visitors following Oprah Winfrey endorsement
“She told us to back up our site. We had eight million visitors in our first, almost second year in business.”
Burch: Only Considered Herself a Designer Around 2019
“I didn't even think of myself as a designer either, so. So there you have it. I was the hardest on myself, so I would say not until about four years ago did I consider myself a designer, and proud to say it”
Michael Kors CEO told Brigitte Klein joining Tory Burch was 'career suicide'
“President, and I'll never forget her boss at the time, John Idol, told her it was career suicide coming to work for us.”
Tory Burch avoided footwear licensing to prevent brand dilution, choosing partnerships
“It was dilutive, and I had seen so many wonderful brands
do too much licensing, and it was, it scared me, so we set up a production agreement.”
Bank of America committed $100 million to Tory Burch Foundation loan program
“So we partnered with Bank of America to help women get access to low, lower interest loans, and their commitment of a hundred million was something that I was so excited about”
Co-founder Chris Burch personally sued Tory Burch and her entire board
“So we wanted him to change his concept, and then he sued us. He sued me personally and my entire board.”
BDT Capital and General Atlantic bought out Chris Burch to settle lawsuit
“I think bringing BDT Capital and General Lanik in was an incredible result.”
Burch: Moving 100% of Time to Design Transformed the Business
“And being able to be focused just on design and the product creation, I think, has been transformative for The business and for the product for sure. I mean, it's, I went from me spending 30% of my time on it to a hundred percent, and I do feel that we're just…”
Tory Burch: Not Actively Thinking About Selling Company
“I'm so not ready to sell this company, or I hope that we're here for a long time, and Pureeve and I love Working together, we love working with the team that we have, and we have so much we want to do. So I don't think about selling the company. That's not som…”