Jul 26, 2024 · 28m · how-i-built-this
BONUS: Brand Building Live at Cannes Lions
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Recorded live at Cannes Lions, host Guy Raz interviews former Procter & Gamble Global Marketing Officer Jim Stengel about foundational brand building, the balance between consumer immersion and big data, and how modern challenger brands achieve cultural relevance.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 50.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 5.0 Guest teaching 1.9 Guest disagreement 0.2 Guy pushing back 0.6
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:00 Stengel dismisses the either/or framing of data versus ground immersion
Stengel directly counters Raz's premise that brands over-rely on stats at the expense of fieldwork, stating that world-class brand builders must utilize both sides of the brain.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 23:34 Raz pushes back on Stengel's non-political Pampers UNICEF exampleWhen Stengel cites Pampers' UNICEF program as proof of taking a stand, Raz immediately pushes back, arguing that public health is uncontroversial compared to genuine political stands like Nike's Colin Kaepernick campaign.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 18:17 Stengel demystifies modern influencer marketing trendsStengel educates the room by reframing creator and influencer marketing not as a novel digital phenomenon, but as a classic brand strategy that has existed for decades under new speed and distribution platforms.
Guy holds their own ▶ 13:54 Raz explains Vuori's founding history and marketing pivotRaz demonstrates in-depth entrepreneurial expertise by detailing Vuori founder Joe Kudla's failed male yoga positioning and subsequent pivot into general activewear.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jim Stengel's Relentless Journey into Procter & Gamble | 5 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Raz opens with deeply researched background that surprises Stengel regarding his initial P&G rejection. Stengel details his early career failure launching Duncan Hines soft cookies against Keebler. | |
| Pioneering Immersion Research with Jif Peanut Butter | 5 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Raz demonstrates strong familiarity with Jif's historical advertising slogans. Stengel explains how immersion research with moms and PTOs reshaped the brand's positioning. | |
| Reinvigorating Pampers Through Developmental Advocacy | 5 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Raz sets the context of Pampers losing market share to Huggies in Europe and cites specific product innovations like developmental phase staging. Stengel details reframing Pampers around child development. | |
| Downy Fabric Softener and In-Home Consumer Research | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | Raz asks if modern marketing relies too heavily on big data over ethnographic research. Stengel reframes the binary premise by asserting top marketers must integrate both data and consumer immersion. | |
| Mid-Show Break and Sponsorship Announcement | 6 | 3 | 0 | 1 | Raz corrects the brand spelling and pronunciation of Vuori and recaps founder Joe Kudla's marketing pivot from yoga apparel to broad activewear. | |
| Maintaining Brand Relevance and Kraft Heinz's Creativity | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Raz cites Malcolm Gladwell and Kraft Heinz's diner restaurant campaign to highlight brand salience. Stengel reinforces the importance of cultural relevance and fun in brand execution. | |
| The Evolution of Advertising and Influencer Authenticity | 4 | 2 | 0 | 1 | Raz raises creator industry arguments declaring traditional mass advertising dead in favor of niche influencer marketing. Stengel clarifies that influencer marketing is an age-old fundamental simply operating on modern platforms. | |
| Disrupting Stale Categories: Liquid Death and High Noon | 6 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Raz cites Seth Godin's purple cow concept when analyzing Liquid Death's disruptive branding. Stengel expands on the insight by comparing Liquid Death to High Noon and identifying classical product advantages. | |
| Purpose-Driven Brands and Social Enterprises | 5 | 2 | 1 | 4 | Raz challenges Stengel's example of corporate purpose by distinguishing public health initiatives from polarizing political stances, bringing up Nike and Colin Kaepernick as a true political test. | |
| Actionable Advice for Startups: Identifying Core Audiences | 5 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Raz introduces the concept of force multipliers and 1,000 true fans to frame audience acquisition for startups. Stengel validates this with P&G's initial targeting strategy for Febreze. |
Statements from this episode (9)
P&G exited the cookie market after underestimating competition and variety demand
“We underestimated our competition, and we underestimated the consumer's desire for massive variety in cookies, and we had like five flavors of chocolate chip. So, we ended up exiting the business and we just, it was not our specialty.”
Pampers tripled revenue in 12 years after repositioning around child development
“We united the Pampers global team, and within about 12 years, this was a big brand when we started, P&G's biggest brand. We tripled our revenue. And improve the profitability, and set an example, frankly, for P&G corporately.”
P&G's executive team conducted field research before every quarterly meeting
“By the way, our executive team at P&G, we met quarterly. This is the top management. Before our quarterly meeting, we would always do an immersion. We'd go spend time with people who were not like us.”
Downy's global low-rinse formula stemmed directly from Latin American field research
“And what came out of that, and some great research by R&D people, is A new product that took the suds away after you did your wash. Now that sounds like it's maybe silly, but these people are carrying water sometimes a mile, two miles, three miles to do their …”
Vuori succeeded by pivoting from men's yoga to general activewear
“Joe Kudla started that brand. They didn't resonate. And the reason why is they tried to sell yoga wear for men. In yoga studios. So they really kind of took the same product and just changed the way they marketed it. They basically said, Hey this is for hiking…”
The core strategy of influencer marketing remains unchanged from prior eras
“So the strategy is no different. It's just it happens right now at scale more quickly because of the platforms, and it's changing. Someone who's an influencer today may not be next month.”
Nike's Colin Kaepernick campaign would have failed if the brand wobbled
“So I think if you're going to take a stand like that, which I think was right for them, and right for their brand, and right for their values, it worked. If they had wobbled, it would have been a very different story.”
Young consumers punish brands for broken promises, not for cultural neutrality
“I think they punish brands when they don't do what they say they're going to do, and they're not relevant to them.”
P&G originally launched Febreze by specifically targeting cigarette smokers
“I mean, you go back to an old P&G lesson, Febreze, which is now multi-billion dollar brand, wasn't always that. They made a choice about what kind of people Would find the most benefit, and they started with cigarette smoking.”