Sep 2, 2024 · 1h 9m · how-i-built-this
Olipop: Ben Goodwin
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of How I Built This, Guy Raz interviews Olipop co-founder Ben Goodwin about how overcoming personal adversity, conducting DIY fermentation research, and enduring the failure of an earlier startup led him to pioneer a half-billion-dollar prebiotic soda brand.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 33.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 2.6 Guest teaching 2.3 Guest disagreement 0.2 Guy pushing back 0.4
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 1:04:54 Artfully dodging the buyout premise
Ben playfully yet firmly rejects Guy's premise that selling to Coke or Pepsi is the obvious end goal, openly declaring his intent to dodge the question and preserve independence.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 1:04:50 Pressing on corporate acquisitionGuy refuses to let Ben avoid the exit question, citing precedent like Coke acquiring Topo Chico and Honest Tea and insisting a huge payout is inevitable.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 56:30 Deconstructing the whole-food replacement mythBen thoroughly educates Guy and counters media critics by quoting FDA and WHO fiber guidelines, pointing out that 90% of Americans are fiber deficient and equating fiber soda to protein powder.
Guy holds their own ▶ 1:04:50 Citing beverage conglomerate acquisitionsGuy demonstrates detailed industry acumen by mapping out how conglomerates scale niche brands and specifically citing Coca-Cola's handling of Topo Chico and Honest Tea.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Guy Raz Launches New Newsletter | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Host intro monologue introducing the episode theme, drawing parallels to James Dyson, and teasing the Olipop narrative without guest interaction. | |
| Ben Goodwin's Childhood and Early Struggles | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Ben recounts his difficult upbringing and the turning point where he changed his diet and lifestyle. Guy provides supportive, empathetic interview prompts. | |
| College Dropout and the Clif Bar Epiphany | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Guy notes his personal friendship with Clif Bar founder Gary Erickson and contextualizes the book that inspired Ben to pursue entrepreneurship. | |
| Kombucha Botanica and Gut Microbiome Science | 4 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Guy displays brewing knowledge about SCOBY and fermentation, while Ben explains the deeper science of the microbiome and the gut-brain axis. | |
| Freelance Product Development and Health Mission | 3 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Ben educates Guy on water kefir fermentation dynamics and explains why managing complex live cultures is akin to animal husbandry. | |
| Building the DIY Shed Lab with Jim Ladere | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Ben describes building a DIY microbiology lab in a shed using Ziploc bags and electrostatic guns, trading humorous pop-culture references with Guy. | |
| Four Years of R&D and Breakthrough Batch | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Ben details the four-year R&D effort and the accidental discovery of a viable batch just as they were packing up the shed lab. | |
| Searching for Partner and Staying Your Size | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Guy asks how Ben identified a bad partner fit, leading Ben to share philosophical lessons about keeping ego in check and staying one's size. | |
| Teaming Up with David Lester | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Ben discusses meeting David Lester, pitching him on microbiome health, and developing a custom stevia blend to mask bitterness. | |
| Launching and Selling Obi Probiotic Soda | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Ben explains the strategy behind Obi soda and reveals the surprising consumer insight that root beer was their biggest seller over fruit flavors. | |
| The Demise of Obi and Key Lessons | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Guy presses gently on the emotional toll of Obi ending after seven years of work, which Ben reflects on openly. | |
| The Non-Compete Clause and Japan Discoveries | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Ben explains how a non-compete barred him from probiotics, prompting a trip to Japan where he observed high-fiber functional beverages. | |
| Pivoting to Prebiotics and Reuniting with David | 4 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Guy outlines the basic definition of prebiotics, and Ben expands on the biological importance of botanical diversity in microbiome feeding. | |
| Kitchen Formulations and Nostalgic Flavor Hooks | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Ben explains formulating with a SodaStream and designing nostalgic sensory hooks in drinks like tropical punch. | |
| Naming Olipop, Raising Capital, and Market Positioning | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Ben describes naming the brand after oligosaccharides and capitalizing on the perceived cognitive contradiction of a healthy soda. | |
| Launching in Northern California Grocery Stores | 4 | 6 | 1 | 2 | Guy asks if Olipop claims to replace whole foods; Ben firmly reframes the criticism, citing national fiber deficiency statistics and comparing it to protein powder. | |
| Erewhon Expansion and Mass Retail Strategy | 3 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Guy assumes Erewhon was targeted for celebrities, but Ben reveals the real strategic motive was attracting mass retail buyers like Walmart. | |
| Navigating 2020 Pandemic and Consumer Adoption | 5 | 2 | 3 | 5 | Guy repeatedly presses Ben on whether Olipop will eventually sell out to giants like Coke or Pepsi; Ben artfully dodges and defends remaining independent. | |
| Reflections on Luck, Resilience, and Growth | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Ben gives a thoughtful breakdown of how environmental privilege and resilience intersected with sheer luck. |
Statements from this episode (22)
Ben Goodwin: The microbiome produces the majority of human neurotransmitters
“So, we produce the majority of our hormones and our neurotransmitters in our microbiome. Those have a marked impact on how we feel, on how we think, and that's powerful.”
Ben Goodwin: Scaling complex beverage fermentation is like animal husbandry
“Fermentation, especially fermentation that's this complex, is it's more like animal husbandry than anything else. You know, you basically have these different microorganisms, and they've gotta eat correctly, and they've gotta rest correctly, And they've got to…”
Ben Goodwin: Electrostatic guns and Ziploc bags create low-cost bioreactors
“You buy a bunch of Ziploc bags, because they're pre-sterilized. And you get an electrostatic gun, and you run the electrostatic gun over the Ziploc bags to create micro punctures. So all of a sudden you create this sterilized breathable membrane, and then you …”
Ben Goodwin spent $300K to $350K of his own money on R&D
“And I would say I probably spent about Three to 350,000 dollars out of my own, almost entirely out of my own pocket over that, those four years.”
Goodwin: Startup co-founders must share identical, merciless obsession with the mission
“You really do need someone just mercilessly obsessed as you are on, on what's important about what you're doing, right? They can't have a problem rolling their sleeves up. You're co-pilots together in a plane that barely flies that's going a thousand miles an …”
Ben Goodwin: Investors prefer clear founder archetypes like 'mad scientist'
“I think that people really love to create categorizations for other folks, so it allowed people to put me in the, oh yeah, he's the kind of brilliant, mad scientist-y guy, and here's the kind of corporate guy, and they, it allowed them to categorize us in a wa…”
Goodwin: Formulated Custom Stevia Blend Due to Inadequate Commercial Options
“I developed my own stevia blend to sweeten the drink with, because I didn't like any of the technology that was on the market.”
Goodwin: Obi raised about $900,000 in its initial funding round
“Eventually the first chunk of funding, I think we raised about 900 K in our first, on our first go, and it was just this assorted network that we had built up enough rapport with”
Goodwin: Soda is a $42B US industry with 97% household penetration
“It's a forty two billion dollar industry with 97% household penetration. It's an absolute legacy product in the United States.”
Goodwin: Obi reached about $1 million in revenue after two years
“After that kind of, you know, two-ish years, we were up at about a million bucks in revenue, and really, yeah, we were checking along.”
Ben Goodwin signed non-compete barring him from probiotics after Obi
“I basically signed a document saying I wouldn't go back into probiotics.”
Goodwin: Obi payout was enough to live on and launch Olipop
“We made enough that we were able to live off of that and use it to start Olipop”
Goodwin: Overfeeding one gut bacteria strain creates microbiome imbalances
“If you are trying to benefit the microbiome, you want to bring up multiple strains of beneficial bacteria simultaneously. If you overfeed One strain. You actually can just create a new imbalance.”
Goodwin: Consumers will not switch beverage habits without leading with flavor
“Good, good luck trying to get a bunch of people to switch their behavior if something doesn't lead with delicious flavor. And when we Talk to our consumers and try to figure out, hey, what's contributed to our kind of growth and the high level of kind of advoc…”
Ben Goodwin: Contradictory branding like 'healthy soda' creates mental stickiness
“That contradiction creates mental stickiness because you look at it and you go like healthy soda. I don't really, Is, yes, no, I don't know. Like, and then, ok, cute packaging though, I'll try it. Oh my god, it tastes great. Oh, I look at the, then I look at t…”
Ben Goodwin: Walmart approached Olipop 18 months before it was ready
“Walmart's one of our biggest customers now, but they approached us to go into the stores about 18 months before we felt ready to do it.”
Ben Goodwin: Over-optimizing for natural grocers hurts a brand's mainstream expansion
“Because I think a lot of times brands from a advertising perspective and a flavor profile perspective will Over will over leverage their product to be successful in the natural channel, and then it really struggles to gain traction in mainstream channels.”
Goodwin: 2020 Pandemic Shifted Olipop Customers to Multi-Can Weekly Stockups
“It turned out that for those customers that had discovered us and basically were falling in love with the brand, they were already considering it in an essential shop for the week. So people weren't just going in and grabbing a can. They were going in and grab…”
Ben Goodwin: Olipop has been profitable every month in 2024
“We have been profitable every month this year, and we'll be profitable through the year.”
Ben Goodwin: Olipop achieved triple-digit revenue growth every year since inception
“We have had triple digit growth every year since inception. In fact, in 2020, we almost had quadruple digit growth.”