The Exchanges

Q freedom of speech, something that kind of got lost in our industry for a couple years in technology, but has now made, I think, um, some significant progress on. Does seem like some folks in Europe don't share our love of freedom of speech. Maybe you could explain to us What the tension is today, and what some of the regulations are that have been put in place in Europe?

A Sure, absolutely. So, the two main regulations that I've interfaced with since taking office, and part of this is just a product of My first official trip was to Europe, and while I was in Europe, a large fine came down on an American platform, X, under the Digital Services Act, which I'll get into in a moment. So, Europe, um, especially since, since the Second World War, but I think really since the American founding and our codification of the First Amendment, you know, America has taken a much stronger approach on free speech than even most of the West. And with the rise of the Internet and all communication, or a lot of communication becoming transnational, We see these new technocratic regulatory frameworks in Europe bumping up against the commitments to free speech in the United States, and Jason makes an important observation that for a while some of these large American technology platforms We're more inclined to moderate or to censor, kind of in conformity with some prevailing, um, some prevailing norms and concerns in the United States. But I think in the United States, we've shifted back toward a less censorious approach, and so have these platforms. And at the same time, you have, ah, regulatory efforts in Europe and the UK, and I'll, I'll name a couple that I think have been particularly relevant. So the UK has something called the Online Safety Act. The Online Saf…

AI assessment note: “We see these new technocratic regulatory frameworks in Europe bumping up against the commitments”

Q it's about immigration, right? I mean, so I've seen a bunch of these examples, you know, on X. I saw, um, one clip on X where a judge was handing down a two-year sentence against somebody. I don't know if this rings a bell, but supposedly for speech that I think was criticizing the UK's open immigration policies. That's where I sense a lot of the, the prosecutions are, right?

A Right, and this is another place where, you know, Free speech and freedom of expression are American values and interests in and of themselves, but another priority for the administration is common sense on mass migration, and a lot of the speech that offends those in power has to do with migration policy, so there was a thirty-one-month sentence handed down to a suburban mother named Lucy Connolly in the UK, uh, because after a man called Axel Rudabanka stabbed, I think it was a seven-year-old girl, an eight-year-old girl, and a nine-year-old girl at a birthday party, It was ensuing unrest, and she, she tweeted, ah, something anti-migration, and it was pretty inflammatory, but it would have been unambiguously legal in the United States. Um, she said, if this is what migration is going to do to our country, and I'm paraphrasing slightly, but I remember it pretty well, if this is what migration means, then burn down the migrant hotels for all I care. Ah, this was a bereaved mother who'd lost a child. She saw three little girls murdered for no reason, and she reacted, and then she felt bad, and she deleted the tweet. That was a 30, 31 month sentence.

AI assessment note: “there was a thirty-one-month sentence handed down to a suburban mother named Lucy Connolly”

Q Google, I mean, these things now, if you're, if you're flipping by very quickly, you could make a mistake. This also, uh, in terms of censorship, we have significant protections in the United States for, say, cartoonists, as do the French, and They're mocking public figures. How is it different when you're mocking public figures, uh, presidents, prime ministers, cabinet members, but the public can't tell? Because this is new.

A Right. I think, I think this is a really interesting question, and it's our privilege to be at this new technological frontier where these new questions arise. I'm glad you mentioned cartoonists. So after Charlie Kirk was murdered, and I knew him, I represented him on some First Amendment issues in the United States. I saw Americans walking around in an old t-shirt from 10 years ago, and that t-shirt said, Just Sweet Charlie, because that was a t-shirt we bought when free speech in France was under threat, and French people stood up for it. The Charlie Hebdo cartoonists were bombed, they were murdered, um, for saying things that offended religious zealots. And I think, you know, it's a different kind of religious zealotry to not want to allow any dissent online. And thinking back on that episode and how European consensus on free speech might have shifted since then is really sobering, but I think America, we take pride in being the kind of civilization where Charlie Kirk and Charlie Hebdo can both speak I think making fun of public officials, you know, pointing out when the emperor has no clothes is one of the most essential things you can do in a democracy. If you believe in self-governance, you have to believe in that, and what's interesting about a deep fake is that the point of parody is that you can tell that it's parody, but if you're depicting a public official falsely …

AI assessment note: “if you're depicting a public official falsely in a way that people can't tell”

Q So where, Sarah, where do you think this relationship between the U.S. and EU is now headed on this topic of free speech? I mean, there does seem to be a fundamental divergence. Um, do you, I don't know the conversations that you're having, but do you think this gets worked out, or do you think the divide gets greater? Like, where's this headed?

A So, before, uh, President Trump and Secretary Rubio did me the honor of this appointment, I was a litigator, and it was my job to fight. And now I'm a diplomat, so it is my job to be diplomatic. And in that spirit, I would like to sound a, ah, gong of optimism. Yeah. I think that a lot of ordinary Europeans are not comfortable with comedians getting dragged out of the airport, just like Europeans weren't comfortable with comedians getting murdered for publishing offensive cartoons. And if you look at polls in Europe, I think you see some of the sentiment. So, I don't know where things are going. I can't promise a panacea, but I will say that I've had productive conversations and hope that I'll have more.

AI assessment note: “I don't know where things are going. I can't promise a panacea, but”