May 28, 2022 · 38m · allin

#AIS: Glenn Greenwald & Matt Taibbi discuss the new political divide, moderated by David Sacks

Glenn Greenwald · 15m spoken Matt Taibbi · 12m spoken David Sacks · 4m spoken Jason Calacanis · 2m spoken
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At the All-In Summit, independent journalists Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi join David Sacks to analyze the shifting political divide, media financial incentives, and the weaponization of partisan labels against anti-establishment dissent.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The hosts hold 19.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

The hosts as informed peer 3.9 Guest teaching 6.1 Guest disagreement 3.0 The hosts pushing back 1.7
05100:0010:0020:0030:002:58–6:50 · The hosts as informed peer 0/10 Glenn Greenwald on the Demonization of Dissent Greenwald monologues on how political labels like far-right are used to demonize dissenters. Sacks and Calacanis do not interject during this segment, keeping host expertise and pushback scores at zero.6:50–12:36 · The hosts as informed peer 0/10 Matt Taibbi on Journalism, Class, and Trump Taibbi outlines his reporting post-2008 on the widening wealth gap and how mainstream journalism rejected nuanced explanations for Trump's popularity. Hosts remain entirely silent throughout the segment.12:36–18:20 · The hosts as informed peer 5/10 Financial Incentives and the Resistance Business Model Sacks frames the discussion around media discarding neutrality to oppose Trump. Greenwald and Taibbi educate the audience on cable news metrics and how anti-Trump resistance became a lucrative business model.18:20–26:19 · The hosts as informed peer 8/10 The Failure of Post-2016 Reappraisal and Elite Isolation Sacks demonstrates strong political expertise by articulating the core economic and foreign policy issues behind Trump's 2016 win. Greenwald builds on this by detailing how elites embraced Russia collusion narratives to avoid self-criticism.26:19–31:32 · The hosts as informed peer 6/10 The Realignment of Class Politics and Media Models Calacanis provides active host pushback by noting the guests ignored Fox News when critiquing left-wing media models. Taibbi concurs, citing his book on audience optimization.31:32–34:39 · The hosts as informed peer 5/10 Joe Rogan and the Incompetence of Political Gatekeeping Calacanis points out the Democratic party's failure to court populist figures like Rogan and Musk. Greenwald explains the political realignment taking place as Republicans shift away from Reaganite orthodoxy.34:39–37:51 · The hosts as informed peer 3/10 Audience Q&A on Elon Musk, Twitter, and the Two-Party Illusion The hosts moderate audience questions regarding Musk's Twitter bid and the two-party system. Greenwald explains how both major parties share a core establishment consensus within the 40-yard line.2:58–6:50 · Guest teaching 6/10 Glenn Greenwald on the Demonization of Dissent Greenwald monologues on how political labels like far-right are used to demonize dissenters. Sacks and Calacanis do not interject during this segment, keeping host expertise and pushback scores at zero.6:50–12:36 · Guest teaching 7/10 Matt Taibbi on Journalism, Class, and Trump Taibbi outlines his reporting post-2008 on the widening wealth gap and how mainstream journalism rejected nuanced explanations for Trump's popularity. Hosts remain entirely silent throughout the segment.12:36–18:20 · Guest teaching 7/10 Financial Incentives and the Resistance Business Model Sacks frames the discussion around media discarding neutrality to oppose Trump. Greenwald and Taibbi educate the audience on cable news metrics and how anti-Trump resistance became a lucrative business model.18:20–26:19 · Guest teaching 6/10 The Failure of Post-2016 Reappraisal and Elite Isolation Sacks demonstrates strong political expertise by articulating the core economic and foreign policy issues behind Trump's 2016 win. Greenwald builds on this by detailing how elites embraced Russia collusion narratives to avoid self-criticism.26:19–31:32 · Guest teaching 5/10 The Realignment of Class Politics and Media Models Calacanis provides active host pushback by noting the guests ignored Fox News when critiquing left-wing media models. Taibbi concurs, citing his book on audience optimization.31:32–34:39 · Guest teaching 6/10 Joe Rogan and the Incompetence of Political Gatekeeping Calacanis points out the Democratic party's failure to court populist figures like Rogan and Musk. Greenwald explains the political realignment taking place as Republicans shift away from Reaganite orthodoxy.34:39–37:51 · Guest teaching 6/10 Audience Q&A on Elon Musk, Twitter, and the Two-Party Illusion The hosts moderate audience questions regarding Musk's Twitter bid and the two-party system. Greenwald explains how both major parties share a core establishment consensus within the 40-yard line.2:58–6:50 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Glenn Greenwald on the Demonization of Dissent Greenwald monologues on how political labels like far-right are used to demonize dissenters. Sacks and Calacanis do not interject during this segment, keeping host expertise and pushback scores at zero.6:50–12:36 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Matt Taibbi on Journalism, Class, and Trump Taibbi outlines his reporting post-2008 on the widening wealth gap and how mainstream journalism rejected nuanced explanations for Trump's popularity. Hosts remain entirely silent throughout the segment.12:36–18:20 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Financial Incentives and the Resistance Business Model Sacks frames the discussion around media discarding neutrality to oppose Trump. Greenwald and Taibbi educate the audience on cable news metrics and how anti-Trump resistance became a lucrative business model.18:20–26:19 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The Failure of Post-2016 Reappraisal and Elite Isolation Sacks demonstrates strong political expertise by articulating the core economic and foreign policy issues behind Trump's 2016 win. Greenwald builds on this by detailing how elites embraced Russia collusion narratives to avoid self-criticism.26:19–31:32 · Guest disagreement 4/10 The Realignment of Class Politics and Media Models Calacanis provides active host pushback by noting the guests ignored Fox News when critiquing left-wing media models. Taibbi concurs, citing his book on audience optimization.31:32–34:39 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Joe Rogan and the Incompetence of Political Gatekeeping Calacanis points out the Democratic party's failure to court populist figures like Rogan and Musk. Greenwald explains the political realignment taking place as Republicans shift away from Reaganite orthodoxy.34:39–37:51 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Audience Q&A on Elon Musk, Twitter, and the Two-Party Illusion The hosts moderate audience questions regarding Musk's Twitter bid and the two-party system. Greenwald explains how both major parties share a core establishment consensus within the 40-yard line.2:58–6:50 · The hosts pushing back 0/10 Glenn Greenwald on the Demonization of Dissent Greenwald monologues on how political labels like far-right are used to demonize dissenters. Sacks and Calacanis do not interject during this segment, keeping host expertise and pushback scores at zero.6:50–12:36 · The hosts pushing back 0/10 Matt Taibbi on Journalism, Class, and Trump Taibbi outlines his reporting post-2008 on the widening wealth gap and how mainstream journalism rejected nuanced explanations for Trump's popularity. Hosts remain entirely silent throughout the segment.12:36–18:20 · The hosts pushing back 1/10 Financial Incentives and the Resistance Business Model Sacks frames the discussion around media discarding neutrality to oppose Trump. Greenwald and Taibbi educate the audience on cable news metrics and how anti-Trump resistance became a lucrative business model.18:20–26:19 · The hosts pushing back 1/10 The Failure of Post-2016 Reappraisal and Elite Isolation Sacks demonstrates strong political expertise by articulating the core economic and foreign policy issues behind Trump's 2016 win. Greenwald builds on this by detailing how elites embraced Russia collusion narratives to avoid self-criticism.26:19–31:32 · The hosts pushing back 7/10 The Realignment of Class Politics and Media Models Calacanis provides active host pushback by noting the guests ignored Fox News when critiquing left-wing media models. Taibbi concurs, citing his book on audience optimization.31:32–34:39 · The hosts pushing back 2/10 Joe Rogan and the Incompetence of Political Gatekeeping Calacanis points out the Democratic party's failure to court populist figures like Rogan and Musk. Greenwald explains the political realignment taking place as Republicans shift away from Reaganite orthodoxy.34:39–37:51 · The hosts pushing back 1/10 Audience Q&A on Elon Musk, Twitter, and the Two-Party Illusion The hosts moderate audience questions regarding Musk's Twitter bid and the two-party system. Greenwald explains how both major parties share a core establishment consensus within the 40-yard line.

speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the hosts 89% · guest 11%0:00 · the hosts 89% · guest 11%3:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the hosts 7.4% · guest 92.6%12:00 · the hosts 7.4% · guest 92.6%15:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the hosts 78.6% · guest 21.4%18:00 · the hosts 78.6% · guest 21.4%21:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%24:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%24:00 · the hosts 0% · guest 100%27:00 · the hosts 21.7% · guest 78.3%27:00 · the hosts 21.7% · guest 78.3%30:00 · the hosts 27.1% · guest 72.9%30:00 · the hosts 27.1% · guest 72.9%33:00 · the hosts 17.9% · guest 82.1%33:00 · the hosts 17.9% · guest 82.1%36:00 · the hosts 12.9% · guest 87.1%36:00 · the hosts 12.9% · guest 87.1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 5:14 Greenwald attacks mainstream liberalism's authoritarian turn

Greenwald forcefully rejects the mainstream Democratic narrative, arguing that framing political opponents as existential threats is used to justify authoritarian tactics like censorship and due-process-free punishment.

Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 29:26 Calacanis pushes back on ignoring Fox News

Calacanis directly challenges the panel's target selection, pointing out that Rupert Murdoch and Fox News originally pioneered the lucrative partisan outrage playbook that mainstream outlets later copied.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 14:58 Greenwald exposes MSNBC segment ratings metric

Greenwald educates the hosts on internal cable news operations, revealing how real-time segment ratings punish host financial security if they voice any criticism of the Democratic party.

The host holds their own ▶ 18:30 Sacks analyzes Trump's 2016 victory and elite denial

Sacks demonstrates host expertise by breaking down the three structural policy failures—endless foreign wars, Rust Belt de-industrialization, and unchecked immigration—that enabled Trump to break both political parties.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe hosts as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe hosts pushing backWhy
Glenn Greenwald on the Demonization of Dissent 0640 Greenwald monologues on how political labels like far-right are used to demonize dissenters. Sacks and Calacanis do not interject during this segment, keeping host expertise and pushback scores at zero.
Matt Taibbi on Journalism, Class, and Trump 0730 Taibbi outlines his reporting post-2008 on the widening wealth gap and how mainstream journalism rejected nuanced explanations for Trump's popularity. Hosts remain entirely silent throughout the segment.
Financial Incentives and the Resistance Business Model 5721 Sacks frames the discussion around media discarding neutrality to oppose Trump. Greenwald and Taibbi educate the audience on cable news metrics and how anti-Trump resistance became a lucrative business model.
The Failure of Post-2016 Reappraisal and Elite Isolation 8621 Sacks demonstrates strong political expertise by articulating the core economic and foreign policy issues behind Trump's 2016 win. Greenwald builds on this by detailing how elites embraced Russia collusion narratives to avoid self-criticism.
The Realignment of Class Politics and Media Models 6547 Calacanis provides active host pushback by noting the guests ignored Fox News when critiquing left-wing media models. Taibbi concurs, citing his book on audience optimization.
Joe Rogan and the Incompetence of Political Gatekeeping 5632 Calacanis points out the Democratic party's failure to court populist figures like Rogan and Musk. Greenwald explains the political realignment taking place as Republicans shift away from Reaganite orthodoxy.
Audience Q&A on Elon Musk, Twitter, and the Two-Party Illusion 3631 The hosts moderate audience questions regarding Musk's Twitter bid and the two-party system. Greenwald explains how both major parties share a core establishment consensus within the 40-yard line.

Statements from this episode (11)

Assertion Partly supported
Greenwald: Rogan named Bernie Sanders his favorite candidate 18 months ago
“Joe Rogan, who just 18 months ago said to millions of people that his favorite candidate running for president was Bernie Sanders, the socialist left-wing candidate.”
Glenn Greenwald May 28, 2022 ▶ 2:56
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Greenwald: Elon Musk voted for Obama and is a top ACLU donor
“And even now Elon Musk, who voted for Barack Obama in 2012 over Mitt Romney and is one of the largest donors to the ACLU.”
Glenn Greenwald May 28, 2022 ▶ 3:24
Assertion Partly supported
Taibbi: Bottom 99% lost wealth while top 1% gained millions under Obama
“During the Obama years the bottom 99% saw their average wealth decrease by 4900 dollars, whereas the top one percent saw its wealth increase by an average of 4.9 million dollars.”
Matt Taibbi May 28, 2022 ▶ 8:30
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Greenwald: Donald Trump saved MSNBC and The New York Times from bankruptcy
“Back in 2015, most of these news organizations were on the brink of collapse. Every MSNBC host was on the verge of being fired, you know, a couple of months away from being fired because nobody was watching. The New York Times had severe financial difficulty. …”
Glenn Greenwald May 28, 2022 ▶ 13:59
Assertion Partly supported
Greenwald: Polling shows over 90% of MSNBC and NYT consumers are Democrats
“You just look at polling data, that 95% of the people who watch MSNBC and 93% of the people who read the New York Times and trust it identify as Democrats.”
Glenn Greenwald May 28, 2022 ▶ 15:05
Assertion Contradicted
Greenwald: Over 10 million Americans voted for Obama twice, then Trump
“There are literally millions of voters in excess of ten million, depending on how you count, but definitely in excess of ten million. Voters who twice voted for Barack Obama in 2008 and 12, and then in 2016 voted for Donald Trump.”
Glenn Greenwald May 28, 2022 ▶ 22:42
Assertion Partly supported
Taibbi: Democrats represent 41 of the 50 wealthiest US congressional districts
“41 of the richest 50 congressional districts in America had Democrats in those seats, and all of the top 10 richest districts were won by Democrats.”
Matt Taibbi May 28, 2022 ▶ 26:42
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Taibbi: Fox News pioneered the media audience optimization business model
“Fox pioneered a new way to make money in media, which is sort of like the audience optimization model. Like you pick a group a demographic, and then you try to dominate it by feeding it news that you know that those people are going to respond to.”
Matt Taibbi May 28, 2022 ▶ 30:05
Opinion
Greenwald: Joe Rogan is the most influential media figure in America
“The most influential person in media, even though the mainstream part of the media never talks about him because he's not part of them is without question, Joe Rogan. He speaks to more people who are under, you know, 85 years old, which is the cable audience t…”
Glenn Greenwald May 28, 2022 ▶ 31:26
Opinion
Calacanis: Democrats are incompetent for failing to court Rogan and Musk
“The Democrats are so incompetent to not court the two most influential people in America today, Joe Rogan and Elon Musk.”
Jason Calacanis May 28, 2022 ▶ 32:51
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Taibbi: A handful of people control 95% of US media distribution
“These are people who've been absolutely comfortable With, you know, a handful of people controlling you know, 95 to 98% of the media distribution in this country you know, for years now.”
Matt Taibbi May 28, 2022 ▶ 35:05
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