Oct 3, 2024 · 2h 6m · allin
Mark Cuban: Love/Hate Relationship with Trump, Why He's Backing Kamala Harris
Mark Cuban · 1h 12m spoken David Sacks · 17m spoken Jason Calacanis · 9m spoken Chamath Palihapitiya · 7m spoken David Friedberg · 5m spoken Mark Cuban (Diarization artifact) · 2s spoken
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In this episode of the All-In Podcast, guest host Mark Cuban joins Jason Calacanis, Chamath Palihapitiya, David Sacks, and David Friedberg to discuss his endorsement of Kamala Harris, his past relationship with Donald Trump, key macroeconomic debates, and his mission to reform drug pricing through Cost Plus Drugs.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The hosts hold 35.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
The hosts as informed peer 5.1 Guest teaching 5.0 Guest disagreement 5.1 The hosts pushing back 5.1
speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 1:03:00 Cuban calls Sacks 'king of virtue signaling' over Kamala Harris stance
Cuban explicitly rejects Sacks's premise regarding Kamala Harris's border record shift, aggressively calling Sacks 'the king of virtue signaling' during a tense political exchange.
Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 1:04:45 Sacks presses Cuban on Harris avoiding media scrutiny regarding policy shiftsSacks repeatedly interrupts and refuses Cuban's framing, demanding to know why the mainstream media fails to ask Harris when and why she abandoned her previous progressive positions.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 1:17:15 Cuban walks hosts through SEC crypto registration barriers and legal case lawCuban clearly educates the hosts by detailing his step-by-step experience attempting SEC compliance, contrasting Howey Test application against Reeves v. Ernst & Young precedent.
The host holds their own ▶ 1:08:55 Friedberg presents hard fiscal debt and refinancing mathFriedberg demonstrates superior macroeconomic domain expertise, citing exact federal debt figures ($35.7T), daily additions ($204B), and refinancing rates to reframe the political debate around fiscal math.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The hosts as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The hosts pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Why Mark Cuban Is Active in the 2024 Election | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | Calacanis asks Cuban about his active involvement in the 2024 election. Cuban frames his involvement as independent patriotism and recounts early personal history with Ross Perot's campaign and taking acting classes. | |
| Mark Cuban's Early Encounters with Donald Trump | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | Sacks prompts Cuban on his multi-decade history with Donald Trump. Cuban describes early positive and quirky interactions, including visiting Mar-a-Lago and Trump's photo-laden office at Trump Tower. | |
| The 2004 Letter and Early Interactions Between Cuban and Trump | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | Sacks displays printed letters sent by Trump after Cuban's show was canceled. Cuban recounts their Twitter spats and phone calls during the 2016 campaign, noting Trump's refusal to use direct email to avoid paper trails. | |
| The 2016 Political Falling Out and Subsequent White House Meetings | 2 | 4 | 4 | 3 | Cuban explains how his 2016 CNN critique of Trump's lack of policy depth led to a rift, followed by later constructive White House consultations on healthcare and COVID-19 relief. | |
| Evaluating Trump's Presidency: Tone, Rhetoric, and the 2020 Riots | 5 | 3 | 7 | 7 | Cuban critiques Trump's presidential tone during the 2020 BLM riots and foreign policy decisions in Yemen. Sacks pushes back forcefully, arguing that Democratic governors like Walz rejected National Guard help. | |
| Foreign Policy Debate: Trump, Yemen, and Armed Conflicts | 6 | 5 | 7 | 7 | Sacks and Cuban debate whether Trump started new wars. Cuban introduces a theory connecting Trump's Saudi Arabia arms deal to subsequent oil production cuts that accelerated gas price inflation. | |
| David Friedberg and David Sacks Challenge Cuban's Inflation Theory | 8 | 5 | 6 | 8 | Friedberg steps in with charts on crude oil production and Federal Reserve balance sheet expansion to challenge Cuban's oil theory, attributing inflation to massive monetary and fiscal stimulus during COVID-19. | |
| Debating Stimulus Checks, Supply Chains, and Fiscal Discipline | 7 | 4 | 6 | 7 | Friedberg and Cuban agree supply chain disruptions and stimulus drove inflation, though Cuban maintains oil production cuts contributed. Sacks highlights Larry Summers's warning against the American Rescue Plan. | |
| Joe Biden's Cognitive Decline and Positives of Trump's Presidency | 6 | 4 | 7 | 8 | Sacks presses Cuban on Joe Biden's cognitive decline and how the DNC handled RFK Jr. Cuban admits Biden showed physical slowness in person but argues his core content remained intact. | |
| The Democratic Primary & Supporting Kamala Harris | 5 | 5 | 8 | 8 | Sacks argues that replacing Biden with Kamala Harris bypassed 14 million primary voters. Cuban dismisses this as party branding tactics, comparing the DNC rules to a fraternity national committee override. | |
| Analyzing Biden-Harris Administration Negatives: Border & Spending | 5 | 6 | 5 | 4 | Cuban outlines Biden-Harris administration failures on the border and EV chargers while praising FTC action against pharmacy benefit managers, though criticizing Lina Khan's stance on tech AI mergers. | |
| Positives of the Biden-Harris Administration | 6 | 4 | 6 | 7 | Cuban praises the Biden administration for restoring business predictability. Friedberg and Sacks challenge him on whether Harris was responsible for border policy as border czar. | |
| Debating Media Scrutiny and Kamala Harris's Strategy | 6 | 4 | 9 | 9 | Sacks cites Harris's past statements against border walls and ICE. Cuban calls Sacks 'the king of virtue signaling' and defends political candidates adapting strategies to win elections. | |
| Foreign Policy: Israel, Gaza, and Ukraine | 9 | 4 | 5 | 7 | After brief foreign policy comments on Israel and Ukraine, Friedberg presents hard numbers on the $35.7 trillion federal debt, upcoming $10 trillion refinance costs, and expanding interest expenses. | |
| Government Efficiency and Elon Musk's Proposed Role | 5 | 5 | 4 | 4 | Cuban outlines how technology integration can drive government efficiency rather than slash-and-burn cuts, and reveals his support for John Deaton over Elizabeth Warren. | |
| Sensible Cryptocurrency Regulation Framework | 4 | 9 | 4 | 3 | Cuban educates the hosts on SEC regulatory hurdles for crypto tokens, citing Howey vs. Reeves legal standards and comparing US enforcement-by-litigation to Japan's 95% collateral rules. | |
| Speculation on SEC Chair and Evaluating Kamala Harris | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | Cuban dismisses rumors of Gensler becoming Treasury Secretary under Harris. He offers a candid critique of Harris's long windups during media interviews. | |
| Comparing Rhetoric: Kamala Harris vs. Donald Trump | 7 | 4 | 8 | 8 | Cuban mocks Trump's rally rhetoric regarding windowless apartments. Sacks pushes back sharply, defending Trump on border security and arguing the Biden administration provoked the Ukraine war. | |
| Transition to Dallas Mavericks Sale Discussion | 4 | 8 | 2 | 2 | Cuban explains selling a 75% stake in the Dallas Mavericks, citing shifting team business models around real estate and casinos, along with removing estate pressure from his children. | |
| Disrupting Healthcare Pricing with Cost Plus Drugs | 4 | 9 | 3 | 2 | Cuban details the mission and business mechanics behind Cost Plus Drugs, explaining how transparent 15% markups eliminate predatory PBM price gouging on generic pharmaceuticals. | |
| Healthcare Policy Reform and Contract Transparency | 5 | 8 | 3 | 2 | Cuban urges corporate leaders to audit opaque PBM contracts and advocates for mandatory pricing transparency across the healthcare industry to drive down out-of-pocket costs. | |
| Venture Capital Strategy, AI Models, and Data Valuation | 6 | 6 | 3 | 3 | Cuban and the hosts discuss AI venture investments, agent models, and the growing premium on proprietary data and intellectual property for model training. | |
| NBA Offseason Discussion and Primary Interview Sign-Off | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | In post-show overtime, Cuban offers his perspective on Elon Musk's Twitter acquisition, arguing Musk's platform stance is driven by user demographics and legal vs. illegal immigrant standing. | |
| Critiquing OpenAI's For-Profit Shift and Praising Founder Conviction | 6 | 6 | 4 | 4 | Sacks and Cuban critique OpenAI's shift from non-profit to a high-valuation for-profit structure. Cuban praises Elon Musk's willingness to go 'all in' on his convictions. |
Statements from this episode (70)
Mark Cuban states he is an independent voter, not a Democrat or Republican
“I'm not a Democrat, I'm not a Republican, I'm an independent through and through.”
Cuban: I would vote Republican against Biden if the candidate were non-MAGA
“If it wasn't Donald Trump running, it was a non-MAGA candidate, particularly if it was Joe Biden still, I'd vote Republican.”
Cuban: Donald Trump is not a Republican, the GOP is his family business
“Donald Trump is not a Republican. Republicans are Donald Trump. You know, the Republican Party is now the family business for, Donald Trump”
Cuban: Donald Trump has charisma and is one of the world's best schmoozers
“He's a blast. He's fun to talk to, you know, he's got charisma, he's got personality. He's easy to like. I mean, you know, he's used to schmoozing. He's a, he's one of the world's best schmoozers.”
Cuban: Every inch of Donald Trump's office was covered with pictures of himself
“Every inch of his office is covered with pictures of him. Every single inch of the office.”
Trump sent Cuban a 'you suck' letter after TV show canceled
“And then when I got canceled, he sent me that letter basically saying, you suck.”
Cuban: Trump refuses to email directly to avoid leaving paper trails
“He refuses to send an email because he doesn't want any proof of anything he's done, right?”
Cuban: Trump makes no effort to learn policy details or give nuanced responses
“He doesn't make any effort to learn anything, and I think that carries on to this day, because you can't look at things he says and say, that's really an in-depth response, or that's a nuanced response”
Cuban: More people died during riots under Trump than under Biden
“We had more people die during riots during his term than Biden by a long shot”
Sacks: Tim Walz rejected Donald Trump's offer to deploy National Guard
“He wanted to send in the National Guard to Minnesota. It was actually Waltz who rejected the National Guard.”
Sacks: Trump was first US president in 20 years without new wars
“He was like the first president in 20 years not to start a new war.”
Sacks: President Biden provoked the proxy war in Ukraine
“Well, I would argue that Biden provoked the proxy war in Ukraine.”
Cuban: Trump chose weapon sales to Saudi Arabia over ending Yemen war
“And we had the opportunity to stop selling weapons, but He looked, the best I could tell, he looked at it as a sales opportunity to sell to MBS all these weapons, and he thought that was a positive. So, a lot of people died, and we're still in there today, so …”
Cuban ties 2022 inflation peak directly to Trump's 2020 oil deal
“And you know what matches up perfectly? What matches up perfectly is that 9.1% in 2022 and the day that that agreement ended. Where MBS and Russia limited production, that agreement ended it like this.”
Cuban calls Donald Trump one of the greatest salespeople and motivators ever
“He's one of the greatest salespeople ever. He's one of the greatest, you know motivators in terms of crowd motivation ever.”
Cuban: Donald Trump follows Roy Cohn's playbook exactly
“If you read books about Roy Cohn, everything Roy Cohn says to do, tracing back to the McCarthy hearings in 54, everything Roy Cohn says to do, that is exactly what Donald Trump does.”
Friedberg: Fed balance sheet doubled to $8 trillion during COVID
“The Federal Reserve's balance sheet swelled during COVID from four trillion dollars to eight trillion dollars.”
Friedberg: Supply chain disruption was main driver of post-COVID inflation
“We had a massive shortfall in the ability to move goods around the world. And that was the biggest driver of the inflationary effects that we saw on the cost of everything.”
Friedberg: Post-stimulus inflation unfolded precisely as Larry Summers warned
“He did make that declaration against his own party, Mark, and he said this is the wrong thing. As a Democrat, he said this is the wrong thing to do, and they went forward with what they planned to do for various reasons. Some would argue political, some would …”
Cuban: The 35% corporate tax rate hurt US global competitiveness
“That was too expensive. It made it difficult for us to compete globally.”
Cuban: Kamala Harris has specified a 28% capital gains tax rate
“She's been very specific that cap gains goes to 28%”
Sacks: Kamala Harris never won primary votes in 2020 or 2024
“She, in 2020, she ran and dropped out before the first primary. And then this time around, she never had to compete in the primary.”
Cuban: Donald Trump's speech and actions reflect cognitive decline
“I'd be willing to bet that he's also had cognitive decline. Everything he says and does is reflective of that.”
Cuban: Biden lacked processing speed, not pure cognitive capability
“It's not that he had cognitive decline in the pure sense. It's that his ability to respond quickly was gone, and he looked like he had cognitive decline.”
Sacks: Democrats discarded Biden's 14 million primary votes for Kamala Harris
“Biden won the Democratic primary. He got fourteen million votes, and then they threw out that result and put in Kamala Harris because they didn't like his debate performance.”
Cuban: Once Trump was nominated, I just wanted whoever could beat him
“Once Donald Trump was the candidate, I wanted the best person to beat Donald Trump. That's what I cared about.”
Cuban: US border encounters match pre-pandemic levels under Trump
“And so now the number of encounters at the border is about the same as what it was right before the pandemic under the Trump administration.”
Cuban: Obama deported over 3M people, more than Trump or Biden
“Obama was the deporter-in-chief. He deported more people than Trump or Biden, over three million people, but he had a specific process in place that everybody could understand.”
Cuban: Breaking up Google and Meta hurts US AI competitiveness
“The most important thing from a technological perspective in this country today Is that we win AI. That is going to find everything militarily for us and economically for us, and that when you try to break up companies like Google and Facebook, you diminish ou…”
Cuban: Pharmacy benefit managers drive up drug costs more than anything
“Pharmacy benefit managers Are ripping off more companies and costing and increasing the cost of medications more than anything else that's happening in healthcare”
Cuban: Removing daily business uncertainty was Biden-Harris's top achievement
“There just wasn't this uncertainty like every single day that every business woke up with Trump. Just removing that. Was the biggest positive of all.”
Mark Cuban: Kamala Harris's immigration mandate was focused on Central America
“If you look at what her specific responsibility was, I alluded to it earlier, her job was to go to Central America and talk to the heads of the countries there and try to reduce the reasons why people were leaving their countries to go to the United States.”
Mark Cuban calls SEC Chairman Gary Gensler a moron
“Look at the SEC with Gary Gensler. The guy's a moron.”
Sacks: Over 10 million migrants entered US under Biden-Harris
“Something like 10, over ten million migrants have entered the country during the Biden-Harris administration.”
Mark Cuban: Israel's Gaza operation was too blunt, but Hezbollah strategy was correct
“When Israel was going into Gaza, I thought it was too blunt an instrument, but when they went after Hezbollah, I thought they did it the exact right way”
Mark Cuban: US should provide financial aid to Ukraine rather than deploy soldiers
“Ukraine, I don't want to see American blood spilled, and as long as there's a NATO, and I agree there should be a NATO, I'd rather see us spend money than put soldiers in harm's way.”
Friedberg: US debt jumped $204 billion in one day to $35.7 trillion
“On the first day of the new fiscal year, federal debt jumped by two hundred and four billion dollars in one day. Federal debt now stands at 35.7 trillion dollars, and the biggest challenge we have in the year ahead is that 10 trillion of the outstanding debt c…”
Friedberg: US debt could reach $40 trillion by end of 2025
“Plus, the Biden administration has proposed a 7.2 trillion dollar budget for next year, which will inevitably lead to another two trillion dollars of deficit spending, which means that by the end of 2025, we could be staring at 40 trillion dollars of federal d…”
Cuban: Harris campaign tax plan excludes unrealized capital gains tax
“They've already, you know, just the tax rates are completely different than the Biden budget proposals, where there's no, you know unrealized capital gains, etc. They went to 28 and 28%, so it's not going to be what was proposed by Biden.”
Cuban: The U.S. has never had a president who understands technology
“We have yet to have a president that fully understands technology.”
Cuban: Kamala Harris believes implementing technology improves government efficiency
“She understands the impact, and she has a lot of people who truly are geeks around her, and she truly believes that implementing technology is a way to improve efficiency.”
Cuban says his comments on running SEC were just trolling Gary Gensler
“I was just trolling Gary Gansler. Yeah, I was just trolling Gary Gansler because it's fun to do.”
Cuban: SEC Chair Gary Gensler practices regulation through litigation
“The point there is he has an approach that is regulation through litigation. He's going to sue you first, ask questions later, and hope that the result of that litigation becomes a rule that everybody else has to follow.”
Cuban: FTX and 3AC would survive under Japanese crypto regulation
“If he had followed the same rules for crypto that Japan did, FTX would still be in business. Sam Bankman-Free might still be in jail, But FTX, three euros capital, they, they'd still be in business, because he did the wrong thing.”
Cuban: Kamala Harris acknowledged SEC 'regulation through litigation' as a problem
“Now, I've literally talked to Kamala Harris at lunch about this specific topic of litigate, regulation through litigation, and as a lawyer, she got it immediately, and she knows it's a problem, and they know, and she's even mentioned it in one of her speeches,…”
Cuban: Kamala Harris's shift to the political middle is genuine
“She wants to bring the country to the middle. She knows that when she was far left, that might have been great for the state of California, but it doesn't solve the problems of the United States of America today, and that's why you've seen her go to the middle…”
Cuban: Long question wind-ups cause Harris's 'word salad' perception
“She has too long a wind-up in answering every single question, and that makes interviews difficult. She wants to inspire everybody with everything that she answers and tries to get people all excited about what she's going to do, and so she takes too long to g…”
Sacks: Biden administration shot down early Russia-Ukraine peace deal
“We could have agreed to a deal in the first month. The Biden administration shot that down. That is why we have the war going in Ukraine.”
Sacks: Kamala Harris was rated the most liberal member of the Senate
“She was rated the most liberal member of the Senate.”
Mark Cuban retained a 27.7% stake in the Dallas Mavericks after selling
“So I sold three quarters of them, not the whole thing. I still own 27.7%”
Mark Cuban believes NBA franchise valuations have not yet peaked
“I don't think they've peaked yet because it, for the reasons I just mentioned, if we're able to build a Venetian type casino in Dallas with an American airline center in the middle of it, the valuation is twenty billion dollars”
Cuban: Cost Plus Drugs sells a 90-pack of tadalafil for $9.90
“So if you go to costplusdrugs.com and you put into Dilafil, when it comes up, we show you our actual cost, and then we mark it up by 15%, and if you buy it via mail order, then we add five dollars for a pharmacy fee to review everything, and five dollars for s…”
Cuban: PBMs skim 10% of drug manufacturer rebates through subsidiaries
“Now, they say they're going to pass on a hundred percent of that rebate. They don't. They create all these subsidiaries and everything that skim 10% or whatever off the top”
Cuban: Cost Plus Drugs is currently unprofitable due to robotic factory costs
“Right now I'm losing money, and most of that was because we built a factory, a whole robotics-driven factory that manufactures sterile injectables that are in short supply.”
Cuban: Cost Plus Drugs lowers a drug price every weekday
“Since last a year ago, more than a year ago, Every weekday we've lowered a price on a drug”
Cuban: Mandating pricing transparency would cut healthcare costs by 30% to 40%
“By requiring transparency in all contracts, signed by anybody, anywhere in terms of pricing, you are going to see the same impact on across-the-board pricing of a decrease of 30, 40%.”
Mark Cuban discloses investment in xAI's Grok with Chamath Palihapitiya
“I invested in Grok, right, with Shamath, right?”
Mark Cuban: AI agents will be a feature, not standalone products
“Agents are just going to be a feature, not a product, because inherently in AI, as it advances and gets smarter, then it's going to be able to create its own agents for its users and go forward from there.”
Mark Cuban predicts tens of millions of custom AI models
“I think there are going to be tens of millions of models. Everybody's going to have a model.”
Mark Cuban says making healthcare affordable is his ultimate life mission
“You know, when I'm gone, I wanted to say, motherfucker, he did it. It was expensive when we were sick, and it ain't expensive no more. And to me, that's the ultimate mission.”
Mark Cuban calls Elon Musk an intentional troll on X
“As a Twitter user, he's a troll. And I mean, he just trolls to troll to troll, and every good troll deserves a foil, right?”
David Sacks says Elon Musk bought X to promote free speech
“I truly believe that his core conviction and the reason he bought Twitter X is because he wanted to unlock it as a free speech platform.”
Calacanis predicts X will be viewed as a gift but challenged business
“I do think that that will be looked at as a beautiful thing that he gave to society as a gift. And it will be looked at as a really challenged business.”
Cuban: Elon Musk goes all-in without hedging more than anyone else
“The one thing I respect the most about Elon Musk, and he does more than anybody I've ever seen, and that is he goes all in. He doesn't just, you know, he takes every cent he has, and he believes in it, and he goes all mother in. He never hedges his bet at all.”
Cuban: Google's Gemini 1.5, NotebookLM, and Meta open source are insanely good
“Notebook is insanely good. Gemini, 1.5 is insanely good. Meta as open source and what they're doing is getting better and better.”
Cuban: Nothing guarantees OpenAI will win the AI market
“There is no, you know, there's nothing that says that open AI is going to win. Nothing at all.”
Cuban: OpenAI restricting investor deals reflects fear rather than strength
“And to me, it tells me they're more scared than anything by trying to restrict what people are doing.”