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“The idea of integrating onto a site hundreds and hundreds of very small containerized electrolyzers, it turns out to be quite expensive. And in no small part, it's expensive because it's very hard to drive the cost out of those units, but also because the foot…”

“So long story short I don't think the same game that worked in solar works in green hydrogen.”

“If you look at the incumbent electrolyzer producers they're the big industrials. I'm talking about companies like Siemens and ThyssenKrupp Cummins, who are not in the business of mercilessly driving cost out of their products, right? They're heavy industrial s…”

“Then there are kind of some pure plays, companies like Nell, like Plug Power's not quite a pure play, but you could put them in that category. And these are folks who Haven't shown the desire maybe, or the ability to be highly innovative technically to drive c…”

“We've seen those capital costs go from You know, an early promise of something like 1500 dollars a kilowatt, buck 50 a watt, to now even over three dollars a watt of capital cost.”

“So, we're pricing in the European market today with a total installed cost just north of a thousand dollars a kilowatt. Inclusive of EPC. That's everything from the substation, the civil works, all of our equipment, the installation and commissioning.”

“Now, if you take our technology roadmap a little further out, and you think about scale and also improvements we have in our, coming in our technology, along with what we expect to see in terms of continued cost reduction in wind and solar, we think we can get…”

“It's super hard to finance something that big As a first of a kind. In fact, it's hard to finance as a second or a third of a kind too. It doesn't get easier until you've probably built four or five of them.”

“It's not a seller's market in electrolytic hydrogen anymore. At least not for the time being. We've definitely come out of hype mode, and we're in hydrogen disillusionment mode right now, I think, globally.”

“Large scale green hydrogen is not bankable today.”

“The fertilizer industry has no compulsion or real kind of soft motivation to decarbonize.”

“Electrolyzers today in the 2000 dollars a kilowatt range, they're too expensive to produce economically viable Green hydrogen. And we're seeing this in projects all through the world. So where green hydrogen projects are being built, they're being built at pri…”

“Our technology and our product Reduces that cost by 50% and gets us into the ballpark where green hydrogen becomes economically viable with moderate subsidy and support, and once we get to scale, it'll get even better from there.”

“If you look in West Texas and you were to sign a solar and wind kind of affirmed green power purchase agreement in, in Texas and Urquhart territory three years ago, you might've paid 35 dollars a megawatt hour for that product. Today you're paying 65, maybe mo…”

“And in a typical project like we're discussing, roughly half of the total installed cost goes to the EPC.”

“I also don't really care much for hydrogen. It's a molecule. It's an element. It's lovely. I don't see it in and of itself as a solution to any of the problems we have in energy.”

“The sectors were looking to decarbonize with kind of green molecules, so-called green molecules. If you measure them in terms of electrolysis or generating capacity, we're talking multiple terawatts of needed new energy supply, new power supply to cross into t…”

“This is almost all venture financing. So we raised quite a bit of money from the venture community thankfully at a time when again there was a lot of interest in green hydrogen which gave us the ability to self-finance and move very, very quickly.”

“Now, the geopolitics are different now than they were in the early days of solar, and China can't play that game again. At least not in Europe and in the US.”

“Green hydrogen went through this just incredible Ballooning of the bubble, and I would say since then the bubble has burst, and you know, I can't say whether right now we're at the nadir of green hydrogen hype, or whether we're starting to come out of it. It f…”

“If you look at the cost of making a kilogram of green hydrogen today, let's say in southern Europe, it might be unsubsidized. It might be maybe six dollars U.S. A kilo. I think rough numbers, that might be about right. That can be broken down Roughly fifty-fif…”

“We see integrators building or promising to build using Chinese equipment systems in the European market at a total installed cost, you know, right around maybe a little north of 1500 dollars a kilowatt.”

“That is not a sustainable market in my view in the long term. It's a necessary first step for the P to X or green molecule industry to get going.”

“Brazil's grid is around 90% green already. And power prices at least away from the coastal economic centers are quite low. 30 to 35 dollars a megawatt hour. That in and of itself allows us to make on the order of seven to 750 dollar a ton of ammonia today with…”

“So I think the next five years looks like very, very tactical kind of one-off projects that are policy-driven in places like Europe. That have the policy frameworks in place or emerging to motivate consumption of these molecules.”

“Generally, PEM systems are relatively small. They're measured in Kilowatts, hundreds of kilowatts, up to the largest today, one to two megawatts per electrolyzer. And they're thought to be extremely expensive.”

“The cell technology is bespoke. It's, you know, invented by us. It can only be made by us. We did not see, and we're not interested in an outsourcing approach to build cells and stacks, and so even to get to the 10 megawatt facility, we needed a manufacturing …”

“The approach we've always taken is avoid customization of equipment wherever possible. Use standard off-the-shelf equipment. You know, it can always be configured, so you'd consider that more tooling, but use available equipment that's well-proven, well-demons…”

“Right now, the green hydrogen or electrolytic hydrogen market is extremely subsidy dependent.”

“But really it's the scaling of the market that's been the hardest, and that in hindsight I think we could have taken a different approach to.”

“Brazil, it turns out, imports over 90% of its nitrogen. Its biggest import partner for fertilizer is actually Russia.”

“It's a 10 megawatt scale electrolyzer. It's operating today, and Have utilized that to prove out the stack technology, but also, more importantly, the, or just as importantly, the integration of the stack technology into the so-called balance of plant, which i…”

“For a thing at the scale we're making at a hundred megawatt electrolyzer plant the sales cycles are very, very long because they're tied to project development Life cycles and project development at this scale can take anywhere from three to five years.”

“I'll name a few that are public. Intersect Power, AES are a couple that we have agreements with. Basically, they say, look we'll put some cash down to reserve your manufacturing capacity over the next few years so that we have access to your technology in our …”

“Even with all our kind of enterprise experience in advanced manufacturing and standing up new manufacturing facilities, I would say we still underestimated the problem and failed to anticipate some critical issues that in hindsight we should have anticipated.”

“I think we underestimated the challenges of deploying and customer acquisition, as you say at the scale that we operate at. And in hindsight, I think we should have also been far more scrutinous. Is that a word? We should apply a lot more scrutiny to our custo…”