The Ledger, every show

“And so I think that right now the, there's like a couple of companies that claim that, like, recursive self-improvement and model training will be only their domain. And I think in reality, many businesses will have access to that technology via software servi…”

“Part of what needs to happen in order to make these companies like Anthropica and OpenAI realize the value is they either A, which they're pursuing, have to go through regulatory capture, in which case they go and they tell, they sort of scare politicians int…”

“At least, you know, two of the largest companies that provide models today have explicitly said, we are going to go after every single one of these industries and businesses that we provide like intelligence for.”

“I think calling open source models Chinese models is a psyop by the frontier labs to basically trick people into thinking that they're scary and otherize them.”

“For me, the Chinese models specifically have demonstrated no examples where they have some sort of security risk or backdoor compared to American models.”

“We are probably in like the Yahoo era where we don't actually have, or at least widely recognize The Googles of the world, or like the sort of the thing that comes after. And so today, when I look at OpenAI and Anthropic, there are, I think, more analogies to …”

“For many of the most intelligent demanding tasks, I see a world where the smartest model is actually the cheapest.”

“There is going to be probably a difference between the commodity task executors. So this is just like your everything model and that we think will be dominated by open models.”

“Well, very shortly, already to a certain extent you can open up a platform, go into their, you know, web page, click a couple buttons, describe the task you care about, point it towards those workflows that happen in your business today, and out comes a model.…”

“These data companies, like you mentioned Mercore, yes, they sell data, but every person at that company gets how AI is going to look much clearer than the average human, and that makes them worth significantly more than, you know, even what investors will say.”

“The margin profile of the models is definitely worse than the applications.”

“I think that the application layer is going to be a much harder battle because being model locked is actually a huge disadvantage if you're trying to sell outcomes.”

“I think that probably the consumer will continue to follow the sort of like most cost effective solution. And so what does that look like in one, two, three years? I think it's open models. I think the most cost effective solution for a model is going to be th…”

“People really want the problems to be solved, like sort of somewhere else, like in the model or in the gateway, but more and more we see it's the harness that solves these problems.”

“There was an idea of continuous learning from over the last couple of years that said that you would have a, like a literal LLM like model where all of the learning happens internal to this closed loop system. That technology has not been developed. It doesn't…”

“It's going to be a very hard story to become Model independent, or rather stay model independent when you're attached to a model lab. So they're going to want to push Grok, the models, the products are going to become increasingly oriented around Grok, and tha…”

“However, I do think for that, most of the enterprises are going to have a second look at the idea of sort of seeding their software development lifecycle to a provider who is one, likely to be model locked, and two has an existing sort of history or pattern of…”

“Models are going to be like that as well, where they emit opinions and they have takes that are different from the ones that are most popular, and people will gravitate towards those.”

“I think it could be 80 to 90% of Neolabs die in the next 18 months. And die is going to be a funny word to use because it'll probably be for a lot of them incredible outcomes. So I don't know if it's necessarily doom and gloom as much as it's these businesses …”

“I think close to, I think almost all usage of models in three years are going to be primarily open, but that difference between frontier and open is going to become actually larger than it is today.”

“But if you go into any business in the global 2000 today, and you look at, you ask any random person, what are you doing today? It's not something that needs the true frontier of intelligence, like, 99% of the time, and so cost will dominate.”

“The biggest thing that Microsoft has going for it is that infra. They own so many of these data centers. They're spending so much on build out. No matter what model runs on top of that, Microsoft is going to win.”

“If you're open AI or you're anthropic, the hundreds of billions in free cash flow that you need in order to pay back the debt that you're taking on in order to accommodate these data center build outs in order to get the next big training run, it's totally exi…”

“I think that that is something that it sounds like Chamath would say, because frankly, that's how he's made his money.”

“This sort of performative work culture, this like nine nine six sort of attitude is almost always correlated with making up for some other You know, detractor or trait that, you know, basically means that this person might not be a great hire.”

“One of the things that we've done is effectively allocated almost seven figures of like credits in a given in one day on this benchmark. And that was currently being done by like one person.”

“So I see that number for some businesses approaching eight and nine figures easily.”

“I think that there's a real serious chance that if we let SpaceX Be worth two or three trillion, then NVIDIA probably is worth 10. And so I think that the answer's likely yes.”

“I will say, though, that one of the things that is pretty clear to me is that the way we build software is fundamentally changing, and I think that Agile might be one of the things that gets hit with this new way of developing, and that makes me think that the…”

“You're not going to replace human with AI as much as you're going to build a new system for developing software and humans are going to build that new system alongside AI. And that new system is going to look very unfamiliar, and so it's not so much a one-to-o…”

“I think that the biggest thing that we're going to be surprised by is the fact that we let a sort of like priestly class of maybe two million people decide the fate of all software for all of humanity. And in three to five years, it'll be actually like unthink…”

“I think that the product experience of delegation is really, really immature right now. And most enterprises though, see that as the holy grail, not like going 15% or 20% faster.”

“The outer loop of software development and what a software developer does, planning, talking with other human beings, interacting around what needs to get done, is something that's going to continue to be very human-driven, while the inner loop, the actual exe…”

“So for example, Sonnet 3.7 clearly has it smells like cloud code, right? Same with codex. It very much impacted the way that those models want to write and edit code such that they seem to have a personality that wants to be in a CLI based tool.”

“I think that the TAM of frontier models is frankly, overweighted right now.”

“You can start to see OpenAI actually grappling with as they've let more models into their harness. They're not making it official, but they're Clearly supporting an open model ecosystem in a more direct way.”

“I think that the marketing of AI in general was probably one of the worst marketing jobs done by, you know, contemporary capitalists in that it basically did the opposite of what you want. Scare every single person, tell them it's very unreliable, and basicall…”

“The things that Dario brings up are not only well-intentioned, but there are very real threats from unregulated and dangerous AI.”

“I honestly think if you have a product that requires a hundred FDEs to get it deployed, you just have a bad product.”

“A lot of knowledge work that's related to intermediate tasks, like people operating in Excel and JIRA. That's just not gonna be differentiated. The workflows are very common. And I think that we may not use a lot of tools like that in five to 10 years, so this…”

“One percent of those tasks is probably going to be 30, 40% of the economic value of the future of intelligence.”

“I think that what I am less concerned about is a, Like, 2008 style financial crisis or massive bubble or asset crash. I think that that seems disconnected from the true reality of where this technology is and is going.”

“Contemporary SaaS businesses are more like movie studios now, where you have to hit a blockbuster, and you have to keep hitting blockbusters in order to keep the attention of the world”

“I won't be surprised to see a huge wave of M&A of these businesses, because they're still good businesses fundamentally, or you can make them good businesses, And they just aren't going to be, like, Stripe, or these massive things that capture fundamental piec…”

“In today's world, the words that you say and how you portray something, that becomes a part of the story that the intelligence systems that we're building ingest. And they, they're like world model, LLMs, and the tools that we're going to use to do work on a d…”

“I went to an Ivy League school. I learned firsthand that that is barely a signal for competence. There are plenty of idiots who went to Ivy League schools, and I think that the clearest signal for me that someone's done something great is that they have built …”

“I don't think that anyone really perceives cursor to be their primary enterprise software development strategy as much as an IDE, which is I think still a great business because they're still going to get a lot of usage, but that sort of is how I see them.”

“A lot of users we believe should not need to prompt engineer agents, right? If your time is being spent hyper optimizing every line and question that you pass to one of these systems, you're going to have a bad time.”