The Ledger, every show

“I think the SaaS-pocalypse is so dumb because Hey, yeah, I'm like vibe coding this inbox app, but 99% of the world is going to want to use something that's maintained by someone else. Yes, you can one shot everything, but the I think the hard rare thing is mov…”

“And I think that's a new and interesting divide where before we were like, I need a technical co-founder and that's not really it anymore because everyone can code. I think it's about your set of sensitivities and desire to make something new and go fast versu…”

“CLIs are over. We speed ran the CLI era. It was nice while it lasted, but I think it's pretty clear. It's not that CLI, sorry. It's not that CLIs are going to completely go away. Obviously they've been around for the last like, 30 years or 40 years or 50 years…”

“I think the SAS apocalypse is dumb and SAS stocks will be up majorly in the next couple of years.”

“I think that, like, some AI CEOs are talking about, like, I think that's not gonna happen.”

“I hate the headlines that are like, it's going to replace jobs. Or like, it's going to unemployed like two thirds of the workforce. Like, I don't think that's true.”

“I a hundred percent think GPT wrappers are amazing, and they've been much maligned for absolutely no reason, and people don't understand how absolutely valuable they are.”

“Like, I think that Klarna CEO thing, that was bullshit.”

“Five, six and fabled some extent if you can get around the guardrails is makes it easier, easy enough to make a machine learning pipeline and run it that, and that's everything from like grabbing the data to making, like making more synthetic data to like actu…”

“But honestly, you can literally just feed this video into codex and just be like, make something like this and it will do that.”

“In this world, you're just a SaaS provider. You're just hosting software. So there's no token costs. And so your margins are back to being like regular, a regular software business instead of being an AI business, which I think is great.”

“And I bet you within a year the opening eyes in the anthropics of the world will have app stores for apps that are built specifically to be used inside of these services. Maybe even cursor too. I don't have any insight on any of this.”

“My experience and my feeling is that we will look back in a year and say, We actually have a lot more work to do. Humans have a lot more work to do. Even as models get better at doing work.”

“I really think that the model for now is going to be a super agent, like one agent for the entire company.”

“Whoever's in the lead, it feels very obvious to me that all of the work that you do is going to be in one of those surfaces”

“When I run the agent on that website, I'm using my tokens. I'm not using the vendors tokens. I'm not using the apps tokens. And so it puts SAS back in this place where, yeah, you want to make it friendly for an agent and everyone's got a CLI.”

“And I think that what agents do is increase the number of users of SaaS. Not get rid of it. And so I think SaaS companies are going to see like an insane spike in the amount of demand that they have, because there's going to be tons of agents using these produ…”

“It's like very, it's very clear that in a year or less, it's going to be senior engineer level, right?”

“My experience is that your company is only going to go as far as your CEO goes in AI, and it's not something you can delegate.”

“Structurally, because of the way the models work, because of the financial incentives of model of model companies to like make them compliant and aligned structurally, they're always going to be trailing behind those people who are taking, taking the models an…”

“I think people think of the edge of AI as being in San Francisco, and I actually don't think that that's where it is. I think the edge of AI is wherever AI meets like a real human doing something, because the people in San Francisco, they're making it, but the…”

“The difference is that the roads, even though things are complex and dynamic and all that kind of stuff on the road, the roads are the same. Like that's the same roads. You're getting from point A to point B and the way that that works, like you, there's a zil…”

“I think we're just getting to a point where for pretty much all of these, you know, all the usual applications, AI is going to be good enough that we can get rid of the interfaces more or less where you're like digging into all the things that it's actually do…”

“And so I think a good definition of AGI is when does it become economically profitable for people to run agents indefinitely? So it just never turns off. It's a cloud code. That's always running. It's always doing something. You just never turn it off and you …”

“And Opus four has it it's really wild. And I think that's super important because it opens up all these use cases where you might want to use a language model as a judge.”

“What skills are going to be valuable in the AI era? One big group of skills are the skills of managers today. They're human managers tomorrow. Everyone's a model manager right now. AI is not like right now management skills are not broadly distributed because …”

“We're not at a point yet where the people that work at every could do what they do if they didn't know how to code.”

“While I will definitely maintain that we're not anywhere close to anybody being able to like build a conventional SaaS app with zero programming knowledge, aside from just like a demo, there are going to be other forms of software. One of my things is like sof…”

“I think the number one predictor is does the CEO use ChatGPT or insert your own chat bot? If the CEO is in it all the time being like, this is the coolest thing. Everybody else is going to start doing it. If the CEO is like, I don't know, this is for someone e…”

“The people inside of every can stay generalists for much longer, and I think that that may like sort of ripple out into the rest of the economy where instead of like gigantic massive corporations where like each person is doing like one little like button turn…”

“There was that whole thing of, like, for the last couple years of, like, oh yeah, every big company's just gonna, like, integrate AI and, like, no startup's gonna be able to compete, and it's just, like, pretty much all of those integrations suck. Like, maybe,…”

“I feel like Anthropic has the, has a little bit of the mandate of heaven right now, and OpenAI is quite underrated.”

“Codex with five, six, which I find to be the most usable, most powerful, fastest model for, specifically for knowledge work and for coding, but like specifically for knowledge work”

“Like with fable, I was we were like literally The, our bug backlog was emptied out. You could just set it off and it was emptied out as long as you're willing to spend the money.”

“I would go to Claude for the actual design, and then port it back in here, because I still think that Claude has a better sense, especially Fable, RIP. But even, even four eight would be better at this. And I think for a product like this, being able to see it…”

“In that case, like, you have to use open-source models, because none of the major model companies, or at least OpenAnthropic, don't really do fine-tuning anymore.”

“These models can't do copy edits. They can't do copy edits like a copy editor can. And it's weird because copy editing shouldn't be that hard. At least copy editing to like 70% or something like that.”

“Whether it's OpenClaw or any other harness, in order for an AI agent to be useful right now, it really needs a human who cares about it. It really needs like a human personal connection with someone who's like, Watching what it does and make sure that it's doi…”

“OpenAI for a while was, I, in my opinion, like, very, very behind on this, and then in my opinion has surpassed them recently.”

“Like, I think that Cursor's cloud implementation is better than either OpenAI or Anthropix and is more advanced.”

“I'm pretty sure this, here's a prediction. I'm pretty sure every coding model on the market will still do this in a year. Every coding model on the market will take that instruction seriously. And if I tell it, here's a bunch of issues, go fix it. They will ju…”

“If an engineer is not using AI, like I'm not going to work with them.”

“Where I think it's going is you and the agent are using the app together. The agent's probably using the CLI, but you're using the web interface and they're, they both need to be in sync.”

“I think that we will be reading way more AI-generated writing in documents and emails, and we will like it.”

“If IBM had invented AI, you can bet it would not be like this. And it would be like a bajillion dollars, and only like the top companies could use it, and they would be using it in the weirdest, most uninteresting ways.”

“Over the summer, I started using cloud code and I was like, wow, this is the future of programming. And they did something really special here, which is they just eliminated the text editor. Like you don't need that. You don't need the code editor. You just ne…”

“And I think no AI tool really is doing that because they're very focused on just give me an answer right now.”

“And I think there's something very similar happening and going to happen with AI is people have to use ChatGPT and like realize that this new sort of workflow is possible. And then there will be a big opportunity to unbundle those workflows into purpose-built …”