Jan 2, 2019 · 25m · a16z
a16z Podcast | The Rise of the CCO
Hatem Shafiq · 9m spoken Alison Pickens · 5m spoken Krista Anderson-Copperman · 4m spoken Matt Levy · 2m spoken Sonal Chokshi · 21s spoken
0:00 / 0:00
▶ Watch on YouTube →
gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
This a16z podcast panel discussion explores the strategic evolution of the Chief Customer Officer (CCO) role in modern SaaS companies. Industry executives detail how CCOs drive post-sales expansion, establish boardroom metrics, align cross-functional teams, and guide long-term customer retention strategies.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →
The host as informed peer 1.8 Guest teaching 4.3 Guest disagreement 1.5 The host pushing back 1.0
speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 7:53 Krista rejects boardroom space premise
Krista directly rejects the host's framing about having to carve out room in the boardroom, pointing out that every shareholder wants retention and growth so room is inherently guaranteed.
Hardest push from the host ▶ 4:17 Matt challenges revenue mandate for CCOsMatt directly challenges Hatem's claim that customer success must justify itself by driving top-line revenue, asking the panel if they agree with that framing.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 14:08 Hatem explains CS COGS vs CAC accountingHatem provides a detailed technical breakdown of how CS expenses are categorized in corporate accounting as COGS versus CAC depending on proactive support versus upsell attribution.
The host holds their own ▶ 13:56 Matt anticipates investor sentiment on health scoresMatt demonstrates expertise in public market dynamics by identifying how customer health scores could become an increasingly valued metric for public equity investors.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The host as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The host pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Driving Revenue and Owning the Post-Sales Cycle | 2 | 4 | 1 | 2 | Host Matt Levy prompts the discussion on whether technical backgrounds help or hurt CCOs and queries whether the CCO role must drive revenue. The guests explain post-sales value creation, upside through account expansion, and advocacy metrics like CSQLs. | |
| CCO Key Metrics and Boardroom Executive Presence | 2 | 5 | 3 | 1 | Host asks how CCOs carve out room in the boardroom alongside traditional C-suite roles. Krista gently pushes back on the premise, asserting that board members naturally want retention and growth, so room does not need to be carved out. | |
| When to Hire a CCO and Driving Cultural Shift | 2 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Host asks when a company should introduce a CCO title. Guests detail how CCOs act as cross-functional change agents transitioning organizations from traditional sales funnels to recurring SaaS revenue models. | |
| Financial Models, IPO Roadshows, and COGS Allocation | 3 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Host asks about CCO involvement during IPO roadshows. Guest Alison Pickens turns to panel asking about COGS treatment for CS, prompting Hatem to outline detailed accounting distinctions between COGS and CAC. | |
| Customer Maturity Models and Product Stickiness | 2 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Host leads discussion on career pathing and key competencies for CCO candidates. Hatem shares operational frameworks around customer maturity models and budget alignment with CFOs. | |
| Audience Q&A: Renewals Management and NPS Effectiveness | 0 | 4 | 2 | 0 | Host is inactive during audience Q&A session. Panelists reframe audience assumptions regarding NPS reliability and renewals team handoffs. |
Statements from this episode (17)
Pickens: Customer success must report directly to the CEO
“I think people are realizing that customer success needs to report directly to the CEO.”
Anderson-Copperman: SaaS companies cannot survive without unified customer experience
“In the SAS model, they've got choice. And it's much easier to move, and they don't have to make those investments that they've made. So ensuring that they have this experience that is cohesive and unified, and they can move seamlessly within each function, bec…”
Shafiq: High-growth companies derive over half their revenue from existing accounts
“You take any good growing company that is growing at whatever, 50, 60% or higher, half or more than half of their revenue comes from existing customers, which means renewal is just not a part of the game.”
Pickens: Gainsight does not set quotas for its customer success managers
“We don't have quotas for our CSMs at Gainsight.”
Anderson-Copperman: Okta requires CSMs to source four qualified opportunities per quarter
“They have a metric that's around qualified opportunities that get to a certain stage in the sales process. So depending on who their accounts are, the size of their accounts that they're managing, we'll give them a metric that says, hey, if you've got five acc…”
Pickens: Recurring revenue requires distinct indicators for renewals, upsells, and advocacy
“We measure three different leading indicators of the three different types of revenue that you can drive in a recurring revenue business. So we've got a predictor of the renewal. We've got a predictor of upsell, which is actually the CSQLs, customer success qu…”
Pickens: Gainsight bonuses CSMs on health scores, CSQLs, and customer advocacy
“For each of these three metrics, our CSMs have targets every quarter, so they're held accountable for moving a certain number of customers into the green level of the health score every quarter, achieving a certain number of customer success qualified leads, a…”
Shafiq: Chief Revenue Officers and sales teams are inherently short-term focused
“The CRO, however good they are, their organization is very short-term focused.”
Anderson-Copperman: Renewal ARR eventually exceeds new ARR in high-growth companies
“At some point in a high-growth company, that renewal number will be bigger than your new ARR every quarter, every year.”
Pickens: The SaaS sales model is an hourglass, not a funnel
“It's no longer a funnel. Actually, it's an hourglass”
Shafiq: Most customer success expenses must be classified as COGS, not CAC
“You could account for some of this as CAC depending on how much of upsells they're driving. And if you actually have a formula, That, you know, is put against the new ARR that they're able to drive, and you might be able to justify it as CAC. But mostly it's C…”
Shafiq: Early-stage companies either severely under-invest or over-invest in customer success
“One thing I learned is companies that are younger tend to be on the extreme ends. Either they're not investing enough in customer success because they're like, what is this? I don't understand this. Is this just support? We have the sales team to actually go c…”
Shafiq: Pure customer obsession without structured financial models fails at scale
“So, not having a proper model and just, I'm customer obsessed, so I'm just doing it, doesn't really work at scale.”
Pickens: CS leaders fail when they give up budget battles early
“My biggest mistakes over the past four years have been related to budget and giving up on a budget battle too early. You've got to prove that case that you're truly aligned to revenue.”