Aug 16, 2018 · 58m · y-combinator
Jessica Brillhart, Immersive Director, on VR and AR · Y Combinator
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this interview hosted by Y Combinator, immersive media director Jessica Brillhart discusses her transition from Google VR to founding Vrai Pictures, sharing key insights on spatial narrative design, immersive audio, and the future convergence of AR and VR.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →
The partners as informed peer 2.7 Guest teaching 5.7 Guest disagreement 1.3 The partners pushing back 0.4
speaking balance: gold is the partners, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 10:04 Brillhart rejects the storytelling premise
Brillhart directly challenges Cannon's question about framing and storytelling in VR, stating that viewing VR through traditional storytelling lenses is the core problem holding the medium back.
Hardest push from the partners ▶ 24:41 Cannon challenges VR gaming definition with Pokemon GoCannon interrupts Brillhart's description of a simple introductory VR game to question why Pokemon Go doesn't already fill that exact role in the consumer market.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:05 Potential story versus kinetic storytellingBrillhart gives an in-depth breakdown explaining that film is kinetic storytelling while immersive media is potential story decoded through environment and agency.
The partners hold their own ▶ 26:47 Cannon's observation on audio priority over video resolutionCannon demonstrates production domain knowledge by pointing out that low-resolution video with pristine spatial audio outperforms ultra-high-definition video with weak audio every time.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The partners as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The partners pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Background at Google and Founding Vrai Pictures | 2 | 5 | 1 | 0 | Craig Cannon sets up an open-ended question about Jessica Brillhart leaving Google to found Vrai Pictures. Brillhart explains her trajectory as Google's principal VR filmmaker, Jump camera development, and the creative intersection between machine learning and immersive media. | |
| Collaborating with Google Brain and Deep Dream VR | 3 | 5 | 1 | 0 | Cannon draws a parallel to scientific disciplines converging through Python. Brillhart details working with Google Brain, Blaise Aguera y Arcas, and Ross Goodwin on experimenting with Deep Dream and AI-generated narration in VR. | |
| Rethinking Storytelling vs. World-Building in VR | 2 | 7 | 3 | 1 | When Cannon asks how to approach framing and storytelling in VR, Brillhart rejects the premise that VR is about storytelling. She explains that VR is about potential story and world-building where audiences decode narrative through presence rather than kinetic telling. | |
| Interactive Narrative Lessons from Video Games | 4 | 6 | 1 | 1 | Cannon and Brillhart analyze how non-linear game design from titles like Myst, Red Dead Redemption, and Florence inform VR immersion. Cannon brings up experimental tactile mobile games like Blackbox, which Brillhart enthusiastically validates. | |
| Post-Google Projects and The Weather Channel VR Experiment | 2 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Cannon and Brillhart bond over her comedic Weather Channel VR experiment. Brillhart reflects on the value of working within 3-DoF constraints before expanding into 6-DoF volumetric production. | |
| Upcoming Vrai Projects and Focus on Immersive Audio | 4 | 4 | 2 | 1 | Cannon pushes on whether Pokemon Go represents mass accessible immersion, prompting Brillhart to clarify that native VR design must build from scratch rather than relying on legacy IP. Cannon adds technical insight regarding spatial audio being far more critical than visual fidelity. | |
| Crafting VR Narratives and Probabilistic Experiential Editing | 2 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Cannon reads listener questions regarding 360 capture timelines. Brillhart humorously recounts coining probabilistic experiential editing (PEE) to articulate non-linear VR editing theory. | |
| The Future of VR, AR Convergence, and Human Memory | 3 | 6 | 2 | 1 | The conversation shifts to the convergence of AR and VR, sensory overload, and the psychological impact of recording volumetric memories. Brillhart and Cannon agree on the necessity of human forgetting versus perpetual digital indexing. | |
| Advice for Traditional Filmmakers Adapting to VR | 3 | 7 | 1 | 0 | Brillhart shares her methodology for legacy filmmakers transitioning to VR, detailing her whiteboard reduction technique to find the core truth and drawing parallels to character agency in game narratives. | |
| Rapid-Fire Questions: VR Utility, Social VR, and Personal Memories | 2 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Cannon guides rapid-fire questions covering non-gaming VR applications, harassment and ethical concerns in social VR, and the emotional resonance of personal VR archives. |
Statements from this episode (12)
Brillhart: VR and AR Will Converge Rather Than Compete
“I also believe that it's not one technology or another technology. I believe it's all kind of going towards something. They're all going to work together.”
Brillhart: 'Less is more' is a fundamental rule in VR design
“Less is more in a VR space. It's like once everything's like kind of acid trippy, like hearing this like Irish American-speaking fabricated lady speaking Vonnegut interpretations to you just doesn't, isn't ideal.”
Brillhart: Emotional depth in AI content comes entirely from human interpretation
“What's interesting is that there's, it's all pretty surface stuff and the depth is stuff that we bring to it, which I really thought, I think that part to me is very fascinating. Like how we interpret it is really where the story, where the emotional, like, fo…”
Brillhart: VR creators build "potential story" for users to decode
“For VR, the way that I've been looking at it is it's more potential story. It's, I'm crafting worlds that you, where if, when you go there, the story is something that you can decode.”
Brillhart: Immersive Media Succeeds if Core Truth Transmits Regardless of Experience Path
“And so in my mind in VR or any immersive content, if you can get that piece, that truth transmitted to that person, it doesn't matter what kind of experience they have, they walk away with what was most important to you in the first place.”
Brillhart: The best games allow leisure exploration alongside narrative rails
“It's very musical in nature, the best games are, where they give you the capacity to explore at your leisure.”
Brillhart: VR comedy works best through absurd spatial situations, not stand-up routines
“It doesn't have to be a literal thing. You know, you don't, it doesn't have to be like slapsticky or like, here's, you know, fricking like Jerry Seinfeld telling you a joke. Like it's literally just, like, what is the human condition? Like, what have we create…”
Brillhart: Spatial audio is critical for VR presence but treated as secondary
“It just feels like that stuff is so important in terms of selling you being in a space. And it's again, people were trying to think of it second. So I want to be part of the, I want to lead help lead the charge and like it's first for me.”
Brillhart: By 2028, virtual reality will no longer be called "VR"
“I don't see it being called VR. Like, I just don't see it. I think that it's all gonna go to a different kind of place. I think, yeah, I think it'll be called something else.”
Brillhart: All VR headsets are moving toward wireless volumetric movement
“All the headsets are going towards volumetric, like, you know, positionally wireless. So I imagine there being you know, a much a much more interactive, much more engaging, like you're not gonna sit there, you're gonna actually move around.”
Brillhart: VR needs practical, artful non-gaming utility to reach the mainstream
“People not just focusing on entertainment and games. I think that a lot of what I've been doing has, I mean, granted, one of the pieces I'm making is entertainment, but thinking about education, thinking about Various other you know, professions that could use…”
Brillhart: VR shouldn't replicate shooter games due to visceral psychological impact
“I think that VR experiences should not be following in the same footsteps of games in that regard, because holding a gun to someone's head is very different than holding a controller so that that character can hold a gun to someone's head. It's like once you a…”