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Mar 14, 2023 · 38m · we-live-to-build

He Stores 10 Petabytes and Still Halved His Cloud Bill

Nick Jordan · 26m spoken Sean Weisbrot · 7m spoken
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In this episode of the We Live to Build podcast, Narrative.io founder Nick Jordan explores the realities of scaling a big data startup, offering actionable lessons on petabyte-scale cloud cost reduction, wartime leadership, and maintaining psychological resilience.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Sean holds 21% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Sean as informed peer 2.3 Guest teaching 2.7 Guest disagreement 1.5 Sean pushing back 1.2
05100:0010:0020:0030:002:57–5:50 · Sean as informed peer 1/10 Startup Agony, Layoffs, and the Holistic Realities of Leadership Sean asks standard prompt questions about the hardest decisions and unexpected realities of running a company. Nick reflects on the emotional weight of layoffs and explains how product management is only one part of an interconnected business symphony.5:51–10:35 · Sean as informed peer 4/10 Founder Perseverance, Grit, and the Wartime CEO Mentality Sean actively pushes back against Nick's cynical view of founder misery by contrasting VC-backed pressure with happy bootstrapped founders. Nick rejects the premise that his saltiness stems purely from investors, explaining that he thrives as a wartime CEO.10:36–16:06 · Sean as informed peer 3/10 Climate Preferences, Existential Mortality, and Simulation Theory Sean and Nick engage in playful debate over weather preferences before discussing mortality and simulation theory. Sean cites astronomy and quantum physics, while Nick injects dry humor about playing The Sims and writing soulful code.16:06–20:59 · Sean as informed peer 1/10 Overcoming Premature Scaling and Halving Petabyte Cloud Costs Sean asks straightforward informational questions regarding expensive infrastructure mistakes. Nick provides an in-depth breakdown of scaling pitfalls, managing 5 to 10 petabytes of data, and cutting AWS bills in half while doubling top-line revenue.20:59–25:52 · Sean as informed peer 3/10 Marketing Capital Efficiency, Daily Workflow, and Team Delegation Sean brings up high ad-spend benchmarks from e-commerce and billboard campaigns like ClickUp. Nick clarifies the economics of B2B SaaS marketing, detailing low paid search volume and the superiority of organic content strategies.25:52–32:20 · Sean as informed peer 2/10 Product Vision, Unplugged Travel, and Constant Digital Connectivity Sean and Nick bond over travel aspirations and the modern struggle of constant digital connectivity. The exchange is highly collaborative and conversational with zero friction.2:57–5:50 · Guest teaching 3/10 Startup Agony, Layoffs, and the Holistic Realities of Leadership Sean asks standard prompt questions about the hardest decisions and unexpected realities of running a company. Nick reflects on the emotional weight of layoffs and explains how product management is only one part of an interconnected business symphony.5:51–10:35 · Guest teaching 2/10 Founder Perseverance, Grit, and the Wartime CEO Mentality Sean actively pushes back against Nick's cynical view of founder misery by contrasting VC-backed pressure with happy bootstrapped founders. Nick rejects the premise that his saltiness stems purely from investors, explaining that he thrives as a wartime CEO.10:36–16:06 · Guest teaching 1/10 Climate Preferences, Existential Mortality, and Simulation Theory Sean and Nick engage in playful debate over weather preferences before discussing mortality and simulation theory. Sean cites astronomy and quantum physics, while Nick injects dry humor about playing The Sims and writing soulful code.16:06–20:59 · Guest teaching 5/10 Overcoming Premature Scaling and Halving Petabyte Cloud Costs Sean asks straightforward informational questions regarding expensive infrastructure mistakes. Nick provides an in-depth breakdown of scaling pitfalls, managing 5 to 10 petabytes of data, and cutting AWS bills in half while doubling top-line revenue.20:59–25:52 · Guest teaching 4/10 Marketing Capital Efficiency, Daily Workflow, and Team Delegation Sean brings up high ad-spend benchmarks from e-commerce and billboard campaigns like ClickUp. Nick clarifies the economics of B2B SaaS marketing, detailing low paid search volume and the superiority of organic content strategies.25:52–32:20 · Guest teaching 1/10 Product Vision, Unplugged Travel, and Constant Digital Connectivity Sean and Nick bond over travel aspirations and the modern struggle of constant digital connectivity. The exchange is highly collaborative and conversational with zero friction.2:57–5:50 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Startup Agony, Layoffs, and the Holistic Realities of Leadership Sean asks standard prompt questions about the hardest decisions and unexpected realities of running a company. Nick reflects on the emotional weight of layoffs and explains how product management is only one part of an interconnected business symphony.5:51–10:35 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Founder Perseverance, Grit, and the Wartime CEO Mentality Sean actively pushes back against Nick's cynical view of founder misery by contrasting VC-backed pressure with happy bootstrapped founders. Nick rejects the premise that his saltiness stems purely from investors, explaining that he thrives as a wartime CEO.10:36–16:06 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Climate Preferences, Existential Mortality, and Simulation Theory Sean and Nick engage in playful debate over weather preferences before discussing mortality and simulation theory. Sean cites astronomy and quantum physics, while Nick injects dry humor about playing The Sims and writing soulful code.16:06–20:59 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Overcoming Premature Scaling and Halving Petabyte Cloud Costs Sean asks straightforward informational questions regarding expensive infrastructure mistakes. Nick provides an in-depth breakdown of scaling pitfalls, managing 5 to 10 petabytes of data, and cutting AWS bills in half while doubling top-line revenue.20:59–25:52 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Marketing Capital Efficiency, Daily Workflow, and Team Delegation Sean brings up high ad-spend benchmarks from e-commerce and billboard campaigns like ClickUp. Nick clarifies the economics of B2B SaaS marketing, detailing low paid search volume and the superiority of organic content strategies.25:52–32:20 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Product Vision, Unplugged Travel, and Constant Digital Connectivity Sean and Nick bond over travel aspirations and the modern struggle of constant digital connectivity. The exchange is highly collaborative and conversational with zero friction.2:57–5:50 · Sean pushing back 0/10 Startup Agony, Layoffs, and the Holistic Realities of Leadership Sean asks standard prompt questions about the hardest decisions and unexpected realities of running a company. Nick reflects on the emotional weight of layoffs and explains how product management is only one part of an interconnected business symphony.5:51–10:35 · Sean pushing back 4/10 Founder Perseverance, Grit, and the Wartime CEO Mentality Sean actively pushes back against Nick's cynical view of founder misery by contrasting VC-backed pressure with happy bootstrapped founders. Nick rejects the premise that his saltiness stems purely from investors, explaining that he thrives as a wartime CEO.10:36–16:06 · Sean pushing back 2/10 Climate Preferences, Existential Mortality, and Simulation Theory Sean and Nick engage in playful debate over weather preferences before discussing mortality and simulation theory. Sean cites astronomy and quantum physics, while Nick injects dry humor about playing The Sims and writing soulful code.16:06–20:59 · Sean pushing back 0/10 Overcoming Premature Scaling and Halving Petabyte Cloud Costs Sean asks straightforward informational questions regarding expensive infrastructure mistakes. Nick provides an in-depth breakdown of scaling pitfalls, managing 5 to 10 petabytes of data, and cutting AWS bills in half while doubling top-line revenue.20:59–25:52 · Sean pushing back 1/10 Marketing Capital Efficiency, Daily Workflow, and Team Delegation Sean brings up high ad-spend benchmarks from e-commerce and billboard campaigns like ClickUp. Nick clarifies the economics of B2B SaaS marketing, detailing low paid search volume and the superiority of organic content strategies.25:52–32:20 · Sean pushing back 0/10 Product Vision, Unplugged Travel, and Constant Digital Connectivity Sean and Nick bond over travel aspirations and the modern struggle of constant digital connectivity. The exchange is highly collaborative and conversational with zero friction.

speaking balance: gold is Sean, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Sean 30.5% · guest 69.5%0:00 · Sean 30.5% · guest 69.5%3:00 · Sean 13.6% · guest 86.4%3:00 · Sean 13.6% · guest 86.4%6:00 · Sean 30.1% · guest 69.9%6:00 · Sean 30.1% · guest 69.9%9:00 · Sean 24.4% · guest 75.6%9:00 · Sean 24.4% · guest 75.6%12:00 · Sean 53% · guest 47%12:00 · Sean 53% · guest 47%15:00 · Sean 10.2% · guest 89.8%15:00 · Sean 10.2% · guest 89.8%18:00 · Sean 2.7% · guest 97.3%18:00 · Sean 2.7% · guest 97.3%21:00 · Sean 24.5% · guest 75.5%21:00 · Sean 24.5% · guest 75.5%24:00 · Sean 6% · guest 94%24:00 · Sean 6% · guest 94%27:00 · Sean 12.4% · guest 87.6%27:00 · Sean 12.4% · guest 87.6%30:00 · Sean 38.6% · guest 61.4%30:00 · Sean 38.6% · guest 61.4%33:00 · Sean 13.4% · guest 86.6%33:00 · Sean 13.4% · guest 86.6%36:00 · Sean 9% · guest 91%36:00 · Sean 9% · guest 91%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 8:39 Nick disputes investor blame for founder cynicism

Nick pushes back against Sean's theory that investor pressure causes founder saltiness, noting he had the same cynical disposition even when leading successful peacetime runs.

 Hardest push from Sean ▶ 7:52 Sean challenges Nick's premise that entrepreneurship cannot be fun

Sean counters Nick's insistence that company building is inherently painful by citing profitable bootstrapped founders who genuinely enjoy their daily work.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 18:31 Nick breaks down petabyte-scale cloud cost optimization

Nick educates Sean on the mechanics of managing 10 petabytes of data on AWS, dropping concrete financial metrics on halving bills from $95k to sub-$50k during rapid revenue growth.

 Sean holds their own ▶ 7:52 Sean presents comparative analysis of venture vs bootstrapped dynamics

Sean demonstrates deep familiarity with the founder ecosystem by contrasting the grueling psychology of VC-funded milestones against the satisfaction of bootstrapped cash flow.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicSean as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementSean pushing backWhy
Startup Agony, Layoffs, and the Holistic Realities of Leadership 1310 Sean asks standard prompt questions about the hardest decisions and unexpected realities of running a company. Nick reflects on the emotional weight of layoffs and explains how product management is only one part of an interconnected business symphony.
Founder Perseverance, Grit, and the Wartime CEO Mentality 4234 Sean actively pushes back against Nick's cynical view of founder misery by contrasting VC-backed pressure with happy bootstrapped founders. Nick rejects the premise that his saltiness stems purely from investors, explaining that he thrives as a wartime CEO.
Climate Preferences, Existential Mortality, and Simulation Theory 3122 Sean and Nick engage in playful debate over weather preferences before discussing mortality and simulation theory. Sean cites astronomy and quantum physics, while Nick injects dry humor about playing The Sims and writing soulful code.
Overcoming Premature Scaling and Halving Petabyte Cloud Costs 1510 Sean asks straightforward informational questions regarding expensive infrastructure mistakes. Nick provides an in-depth breakdown of scaling pitfalls, managing 5 to 10 petabytes of data, and cutting AWS bills in half while doubling top-line revenue.
Marketing Capital Efficiency, Daily Workflow, and Team Delegation 3411 Sean brings up high ad-spend benchmarks from e-commerce and billboard campaigns like ClickUp. Nick clarifies the economics of B2B SaaS marketing, detailing low paid search volume and the superiority of organic content strategies.
Product Vision, Unplugged Travel, and Constant Digital Connectivity 2110 Sean and Nick bond over travel aspirations and the modern struggle of constant digital connectivity. The exchange is highly collaborative and conversational with zero friction.

Statements from this episode (10)

Disclosure
Narrative.io Executed Multiple Layoffs During COVID and Economic Turmoil
“Along the way, we, we've done you know, a couple of layoffs, you know, around COVID and around some, You know, economic turmoil”
Nick Jordan Mar 14, 2023 ▶ 3:43
Insight
Jordan: Great Tech Products Fail Without Synchronized Sales and Marketing
“Making a company successful requires sort of all the different teams, all of the different functional areas within the company to be successful, to do well, and to work with each other. Having come from a product management background, I thought product manage…”
Nick Jordan Mar 14, 2023 ▶ 4:54
Insight
Jordan: Shutting down early benefits stakeholders over dragging out a failure
“You know, I do think you have to find a way to cut and run and, you know, it actually probably benefits You know, the investors and the employees and a bunch of people, you know, to do that early instead of dragging it out too long anyway.”
Nick Jordan Mar 14, 2023 ▶ 9:16
Disclosure
Jordan: Narrative Halved $95K Monthly AWS Bill While Doubling Revenue
“We got 95 grand one month, I think is probably the peak of our AWS bill. The good news is, I think we have, the AWS bill has gone down every month for the last six months. Last month being December of twenty-twenty-two, we were under 50,000 dollars. So, you kn…”
Nick Jordan Mar 14, 2023 ▶ 18:31
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Jordan: Narrative plans to double 2023 revenue with roughly flat AWS costs
“We think we can continue to grow revenue this year, 20, 23, you know, the plan has us growing by almost doubling revenue. And we think AWS costs year over year are going to be roughly flat.”
Nick Jordan Mar 14, 2023 ▶ 19:16
Disclosure
Jordan: Narrative stores between 5 and 10 petabytes of data on its platform
“I mean, we're storing, you know, somewhere between five and 10 petabytes of data on the platform. Much of that data is processed, not just, you know, once, but many times on behalf of our customers.”
Nick Jordan Mar 14, 2023 ▶ 19:43
Disclosure
Jordan: Narrative spends under $1,000 monthly on Google Ads
“My guess is our monthly spend is probably less than a thousand dollars on, on Google. So it's not nothing, but in the grand scheme of things, it's basically nothing.”
Nick Jordan Mar 14, 2023 ▶ 21:28
Disclosure
Jordan: Narrative.io has received multiple inbound acquisition inquiries
“There have been a couple of times that there has been inbound interest from companies around acquisition. I had investors, I had board members ask, you know, if the company were to be acquired, you know, would you want to stay on board? Actually, we had to, yo…”
Nick Jordan Mar 14, 2023 ▶ 27:39
Opinion
Jordan: Sarcasm Plays Worse in the Bay Area Than on East Coast
“The farther west you move in, in the U S at least the less appreciated sarcasm is. I lived in the Bay area for a number of years and I think there were a bunch of things about me, you know, sort of being a high-strung New Yorker, being very dry-witted and very…”
Nick Jordan Mar 14, 2023 ▶ 34:53
Disclosure
Jordan: Boycotting Twitter Due to State of the Platform
“I used to be on Twitter. I'm currently boy, boycotting it because of the state of Twitter”
Nick Jordan Mar 14, 2023 ▶ 37:03
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