Mar 22, 2024 · 41m · we-live-to-build
Golf at 5:30am in the Dark Changed Everything About How He Runs His Company
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this in-depth interview, Better Commerce founder and CEO Vikram Saxena discusses his entrepreneurial journey, leadership philosophy, and approach to life-work balance with host Sean Weisbrot. He shares insights on scaling a flat organization, prioritizing employees, and finding mental clarity through morning routines.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Sean holds 39.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Sean as informed peer 3.4 Guest teaching 3.6 Guest disagreement 2.2 Sean pushing back 2.2
speaking balance: gold is Sean, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 5:44 Vikram rejects idle living definition
Vikram directly counters Sean's premise of prioritizing living over work, asserting that idling indefinitely on a beach leads to boredom rather than fulfillment.
Hardest push from Sean ▶ 15:07 Sean challenges flat hierarchy scalabilitySean refuses to accept that a 100-person company can operate effectively without middle management, explicitly probing Vikram on whether the business can survive his absence.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 15:13 Vikram proves organizational skeptics wrongVikram educates Sean on how conventional scaling limits at 20, 30, and 50 people were repeatedly proven wrong as his flat hierarchy continued operating successfully at 100+ staff.
Sean holds their own ▶ 20:27 Sean outlines strategic M&A intelligence gatheringSean demonstrates his venture advisory expertise by coaching Vikram on how to leverage unprompted buyer outreach to collect competitive valuation insights.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Sean as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Sean pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Debating Work-Life Balance Versus Life-Work Balance | 5 | 4 | 3 | 4 | Sean challenges the standard terminology of work-life balance, proposing life-work balance instead based on millennial and Gen Z attitudes towards mortality and capitalism. Vikram counters that work legitimately dominates adult waking hours and forms a person's lasting legacy. | |
| Vikram Saxena on Purpose, Joy, and Adding Value Through Work | 2 | 5 | 4 | 1 | Vikram directly challenges Sean's premise of living rather than working, arguing that an endless holiday on a beach would lead to boredom and that purposeful work creates personal meaning. | |
| Contrasting Lifestyles, Digital Nomadism, and Early Global Travel | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Sean outlines his digital nomad lifestyle of visiting over 40 countries and working minimal hours to achieve semi-retirement. Vikram reciprocates by sharing his own extensive global travel experience across 45-50 countries. | |
| Vikram Saxena's Origin Story: Self-Taught Coding and Adventurous Living | 1 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Vikram recounts his non-traditional journey into self-taught coding in India, his introversion, and his insistence on continuing to code even as a CEO with 100 employees. | |
| Maintaining a Flat Hierarchy and Organic Organizational Growth | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | Sean presses Vikram on whether a flat hierarchy without middle management can actually scale or survive time off. Vikram firmly defends his model, citing how he proved critics wrong at 20, 50, and 100 employees. | |
| Exit Strategies, Enterprise Valuation, and M&A Dynamics | 6 | 3 | 2 | 4 | Sean interrogates Vikram's staff-to-customer ratios and exit strategies, providing advisory guidance on using inbound acquisition interest for market intelligence gathering. | |
| Host Channel Interlude and Audience Call to Action | 4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | After Sean's subscriber appeal, the discussion turns to company preparation for sale, including audited financials, Inc. 5000 visibility, and data discrepancy issues on Crunchbase and LinkedIn. | |
| Family Boundaries and Timeless Career Guidance from Vikram's Father | 4 | 4 | 1 | 2 | Sean shares insights from previous interviews regarding the complexities of working with family. Vikram explains the formative advice his lawyer father gave him regarding aligning careers with innate personality. | |
| Putting Employees First and Leadership Empathy Across Generations | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | Vikram highlights prioritizing employee wellbeing over abusive clients. When Sean suggests younger Gen Z workers easily walk away, Vikram refutes the turnover assumption with his long staff retention figures. | |
| Introversion, Deep Connections, and Hardships of Indian Boarding School | 2 | 5 | 3 | 2 | Vikram explains how his preference for deep one-on-one relationships was forged through the survival dynamics and psychological trials of attending an Indian boarding school. | |
| Meditation Through Dawn Golf and the Core Philosophy of Happiness | 1 | 3 | 1 | 0 | Vikram summarizes his core philosophy of happiness and explains how playing golf at 5:30 am in the dark serves as his essential meditative practice. |
Statements from this episode (11)
Saxena plans to achieve complete financial independence within 5-6 years
“And my goal is next five to six years, I'm going to get money out of my equation completely”
CEO Saxena still codes for 100-employee BetterCommerce for personal joy
“Even today, you know, a lot of people say you are the CEO and the founder of the company. You have a hundred people working under you. Why do you still have to code? You shouldn't be coding. I said, no, I draw joy out of it. It's not out of compulsion. It's my…”
Vikram Saxena: BetterCommerce runs a flat system at over 100 employees
“And now we are more than a hundred people and the system still runs and it runs beautifully.”
BetterCommerce has about 100 employees in a 7,500 sq ft Indian office
“We've got about a hundred people sitting in the office. It's about a 7500 square foot area.
[1008] Sean Weisbrot: That's in India.
[1009] Vikram Saxena: That's in India.”
BetterCommerce cut UK office team due to low return on investment
“We did have it.
[1014] Vikram Saxena: Them.
[1015] SPEAKER_10: Two, three people.
[1015] Vikram Saxena: But then gradually, you know, we cut short on them. We weren't getting enough value out of that. So we cut short on them. And I do most of the outreach and …”
Saxena will consider selling BetterCommerce once it reaches 30 to 50 customers
“I want to build it to a good state, potentially sell it to about 40, 50 customers. And that's when I would start considering, or maybe more than 30 customers, I would start considering doing that.”
BetterCommerce splits its 100 employees evenly between product and services
“Our product company is about 50 people and our services business is another 50 people that works for a large business separately and on its own.”
Saxena: BetterCommerce will reach profitability in 2024
“We'll get to profitability as well this year.”
Saxena prioritizes BetterCommerce employees over customers in his business philosophy
“Customers are always very important. But the people that work with you, I put them at a higher, you know, pedestal.”
Saxena: The hardest part of leadership is always being the bad guy
“I think running any company, the hardest thing is you are always the bad guy, even in front of customers, in front of your staff.”
Saxena plays glow-in-the-dark golf at 5:30 AM before work
“I wake up at four 30, I leave my house at five, and I tee off at 5:30 in the dark with glow balls. And I do that because then I can finish almost 14 to 15 holes by nine, get shower, and get to office by 10, 10, 30. That's pretty much three, four days routine i…”