StarZero All shows Try the podcast clipper →

Mar 10, 2016 · 16m · top-founders

How To Get Your First 100 Customers with Matthew Bernman EP 201

Matthew Berman · 7m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews Matthew Berman, co-founder and CEO of SendSonar, discussing how the business messaging platform scaled to 120 paying customers, achieved 35% month-over-month growth, and navigated seed fundraising. Berman shares critical SaaS metrics, customer acquisition strategies, and his long-term vision of building a standalone enterprise.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 48.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.2 Guest teaching 1.4 Guest disagreement 2.8 Nathan pushing back 4.4
05100:0010:001:06–3:31 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Introducing Matthew Berman and the Origins of Sonar The conversation begins cordially as Berman shares the background of Sonar and his experience at 500 Startups. Latka playfully teases Berman about his previous startup folding after he left, which Berman casually clarifies.3:32–7:30 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Seed Round Financing and Cap Negotiations Latka explores Sonar's seed convertible note terms and pricing breakdown. When Berman claims a $2,000 monthly average across 120 customers, Latka calls out the math, prompting Berman to admit the number applies only to top enterprise clients.7:30–10:14 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Growth Channels, Integrations, and Series A Goals Latka pushes Berman to give exact monthly revenue rather than relying on a 35% month-over-month growth rate, pointing out that percentages can mask tiny base numbers. Berman dodges by stating they do five figures and tells Latka to speculate.10:14–12:53 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Acquisition Offers and Long-Term Company Vision Latka presents hypothetical acquisition bids and forcefully pushes back when Berman rejects an $8M buyout for a business doing under $30k MRR. Berman firmly stands his ground, stating founders don't endure early-stage startup grinds just to flip early.12:56–16:02 · Nathan as informed peer 1/10 Mid-Episode Sponsor and Promotion Break This segment contains sponsor promotions, show housekeeping, and the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questionnaire with friendly, low-friction responses.1:06–3:31 · Guest teaching 1/10 Introducing Matthew Berman and the Origins of Sonar The conversation begins cordially as Berman shares the background of Sonar and his experience at 500 Startups. Latka playfully teases Berman about his previous startup folding after he left, which Berman casually clarifies.3:32–7:30 · Guest teaching 3/10 Seed Round Financing and Cap Negotiations Latka explores Sonar's seed convertible note terms and pricing breakdown. When Berman claims a $2,000 monthly average across 120 customers, Latka calls out the math, prompting Berman to admit the number applies only to top enterprise clients.7:30–10:14 · Guest teaching 1/10 Growth Channels, Integrations, and Series A Goals Latka pushes Berman to give exact monthly revenue rather than relying on a 35% month-over-month growth rate, pointing out that percentages can mask tiny base numbers. Berman dodges by stating they do five figures and tells Latka to speculate.10:14–12:53 · Guest teaching 2/10 Acquisition Offers and Long-Term Company Vision Latka presents hypothetical acquisition bids and forcefully pushes back when Berman rejects an $8M buyout for a business doing under $30k MRR. Berman firmly stands his ground, stating founders don't endure early-stage startup grinds just to flip early.12:56–16:02 · Guest teaching 0/10 Mid-Episode Sponsor and Promotion Break This segment contains sponsor promotions, show housekeeping, and the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questionnaire with friendly, low-friction responses.1:06–3:31 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Matthew Berman and the Origins of Sonar The conversation begins cordially as Berman shares the background of Sonar and his experience at 500 Startups. Latka playfully teases Berman about his previous startup folding after he left, which Berman casually clarifies.3:32–7:30 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Seed Round Financing and Cap Negotiations Latka explores Sonar's seed convertible note terms and pricing breakdown. When Berman claims a $2,000 monthly average across 120 customers, Latka calls out the math, prompting Berman to admit the number applies only to top enterprise clients.7:30–10:14 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Growth Channels, Integrations, and Series A Goals Latka pushes Berman to give exact monthly revenue rather than relying on a 35% month-over-month growth rate, pointing out that percentages can mask tiny base numbers. Berman dodges by stating they do five figures and tells Latka to speculate.10:14–12:53 · Guest disagreement 6/10 Acquisition Offers and Long-Term Company Vision Latka presents hypothetical acquisition bids and forcefully pushes back when Berman rejects an $8M buyout for a business doing under $30k MRR. Berman firmly stands his ground, stating founders don't endure early-stage startup grinds just to flip early.12:56–16:02 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Mid-Episode Sponsor and Promotion Break This segment contains sponsor promotions, show housekeeping, and the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questionnaire with friendly, low-friction responses.1:06–3:31 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Matthew Berman and the Origins of Sonar The conversation begins cordially as Berman shares the background of Sonar and his experience at 500 Startups. Latka playfully teases Berman about his previous startup folding after he left, which Berman casually clarifies.3:32–7:30 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Seed Round Financing and Cap Negotiations Latka explores Sonar's seed convertible note terms and pricing breakdown. When Berman claims a $2,000 monthly average across 120 customers, Latka calls out the math, prompting Berman to admit the number applies only to top enterprise clients.7:30–10:14 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Growth Channels, Integrations, and Series A Goals Latka pushes Berman to give exact monthly revenue rather than relying on a 35% month-over-month growth rate, pointing out that percentages can mask tiny base numbers. Berman dodges by stating they do five figures and tells Latka to speculate.10:14–12:53 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Acquisition Offers and Long-Term Company Vision Latka presents hypothetical acquisition bids and forcefully pushes back when Berman rejects an $8M buyout for a business doing under $30k MRR. Berman firmly stands his ground, stating founders don't endure early-stage startup grinds just to flip early.12:56–16:02 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Mid-Episode Sponsor and Promotion Break This segment contains sponsor promotions, show housekeeping, and the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questionnaire with friendly, low-friction responses.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 65.4% · guest 34.6%0:00 · Nathan 65.4% · guest 34.6%3:00 · Nathan 32.8% · guest 67.2%3:00 · Nathan 32.8% · guest 67.2%6:00 · Nathan 48.5% · guest 51.5%6:00 · Nathan 48.5% · guest 51.5%9:00 · Nathan 34.7% · guest 65.3%9:00 · Nathan 34.7% · guest 65.3%12:00 · Nathan 58.2% · guest 41.8%12:00 · Nathan 58.2% · guest 41.8%15:00 · Nathan 54.1% · guest 45.9%15:00 · Nathan 54.1% · guest 45.9%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:17 Berman rejects early exit mentality

Berman resists Latka's insinuation that he would instantly take an $8M buyout, insisting that serious early-stage founders endure the grind to build enduring companies rather than cashing out prematurely.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 11:59 Latka challenges Berman on turning down millions

Latka aggressively calls Berman crazy for turning down an $8M valuation on a sub-$30k MRR business, claiming he would sign an LOI immediately if it were real.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 6:53 Berman clarifies top-tier customer pricing versus blended average

When Latka calculates revenue based on Berman's stated $2,000 monthly average, Berman corrects the misunderstanding by clarifying the figure applies strictly to top enterprise accounts representing 15% of the base.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 8:29 Latka deconstructs deceptive MoM percentage metrics

Latka demonstrates startup metrics expertise by pointing out that a 35% MoM growth rate is misleading without the baseline revenue number, cornering Berman on whether Sonar does above or below $30k/month.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Matthew Berman and the Origins of Sonar 3112 The conversation begins cordially as Berman shares the background of Sonar and his experience at 500 Startups. Latka playfully teases Berman about his previous startup folding after he left, which Berman casually clarifies.
Seed Round Financing and Cap Negotiations 6335 Latka explores Sonar's seed convertible note terms and pricing breakdown. When Berman claims a $2,000 monthly average across 120 customers, Latka calls out the math, prompting Berman to admit the number applies only to top enterprise clients.
Growth Channels, Integrations, and Series A Goals 6146 Latka pushes Berman to give exact monthly revenue rather than relying on a 35% month-over-month growth rate, pointing out that percentages can mask tiny base numbers. Berman dodges by stating they do five figures and tells Latka to speculate.
Acquisition Offers and Long-Term Company Vision 5268 Latka presents hypothetical acquisition bids and forcefully pushes back when Berman rejects an $8M buyout for a business doing under $30k MRR. Berman firmly stands his ground, stating founders don't endure early-stage startup grinds just to flip early.
Mid-Episode Sponsor and Promotion Break 1001 This segment contains sponsor promotions, show housekeeping, and the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questionnaire with friendly, low-friction responses.

Statements from this episode (9)

Disclosure
Berman: Sonar spun out of work for Maven at 500 Startups
“Sonar actually spun out of some work I was doing at 500 Startups. I was working with a company called Maven, and they had this deep need. So I built the prototype for Sonar and you know, before long they started telling other companies about it and it kept gro…”
Matthew Berman Mar 10, 2016 ▶ 1:48
Disclosure
Berman: SendSonar raised $1M seed round with a four-person team
“We raised a million dollars about a year ago. We're a team of four”
Matthew Berman Mar 10, 2016 ▶ 3:40
Disclosure
Berman: SendSonar closed half its seed round in three weeks
“So I actually closed half of the round in about three weeks, and then the second half took another two months.”
Matthew Berman Mar 10, 2016 ▶ 4:43
Disclosure
Berman: Lead investor negotiated SendSonar valuation cap down to $5M
“So we actually started at six and then when our lead investor came on board, we negotiated or they negotiated, I should say, and we actually finalized it at five.”
Matthew Berman Mar 10, 2016 ▶ 5:06
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Berman: Sonar Has Around 120 Paying Customers
“I think we have about like a 120 paying customers.”
Matthew Berman Mar 10, 2016 ▶ 5:58
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Berman: About 15% of Sonar Customers Pay $1,000+ per Month
“We probably, I'd say about 15% of our customers are, I would consider being enterprise, meaning a thousand or more a month.”
Matthew Berman Mar 10, 2016 ▶ 7:16
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Berman: Sonar grew revenue 35% month-over-month every month in 2015
“I think the more relevant number is actually what our month over month revenue growth was, and I'm happy to share that, and that was 35% month over month every month in 2015.”
Matthew Berman Mar 10, 2016 ▶ 8:19
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Berman: Sonar is generating five figures in monthly revenue
“I won't answer that, but we, I'll say that we're doing five figures.”
Matthew Berman Mar 10, 2016 ▶ 8:52
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Berman: Investors Expect $1 Million ARR for a Series A Round
“The consensus seems to be a million dollars ARR, which equates to about 70, 75 K eight grand per month.”
Matthew Berman Mar 10, 2016 ▶ 10:28
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 2,600 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.

Try the podcast clipper Learn more