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Mar 30, 2016 · 22m · top-founders

$700k Raised For App That Connects Brands to High School Athletes With Brian Verne of Phantom EP 210

Brian Verne · 13m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews Brian Verne, CEO and co-founder of Phenom, about building a digital community platform for high school athletes, raising over 700,000 dollars, and monetizing youth consumer insights through partnerships with sports brands like Wilson.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 36.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 3.0 Guest teaching 2.6 Guest disagreement 0.3 Nathan pushing back 2.6
05100:0010:0020:001:13–3:38 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Introducing Brian Verne and Phenom's Mission Nathan introduces Brian and asks broad questions about Phenom's business model. Brian explains the thesis about young athletes caring about their gear persona without any tension.3:39–6:00 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Phenom's Business Model and Wilson Partnership Nathan repeatedly presses Brian on how Phenom makes money and asks for confidential revenue numbers. Brian maintains confidentiality and pivots into describing their data feedback model for brands like Wilson.6:00–8:28 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 User Metrics and Product Tagging Features Nathan pushes Brian to define what he means by 'using' the platform versus real engagement. Brian explains the metric definitions including MAUs and product locker tagging.8:29–11:02 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Grassroots Athlete Influence and Equipment Psychology Brian educates Nathan on grassroots athletic psychology, explaining how kids look up to local phenoms rather than just LeBron James. The tone is collaborative and insightful.11:05–14:35 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Capital Raising, Low Salaries, and Bootstrapping Reality Nathan presses Brian to provide specific salary figures rather than generic answers. Brian openly admits to taking a $30k salary and dealing with maxed-out cards.14:36–16:43 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Phenom's Team Background and Hiring Outlook Brian describes Phenom's team size, hiring pipeline, and his social media channels in a standard conversational exchange.16:44–21:23 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Mid-Interview Sponsor Break and Giveaway Details Nathan conducts a sponsor read and runs through the Famous Five questionnaire in an agreeable atmosphere.1:13–3:38 · Guest teaching 3/10 Introducing Brian Verne and Phenom's Mission Nathan introduces Brian and asks broad questions about Phenom's business model. Brian explains the thesis about young athletes caring about their gear persona without any tension.3:39–6:00 · Guest teaching 3/10 Phenom's Business Model and Wilson Partnership Nathan repeatedly presses Brian on how Phenom makes money and asks for confidential revenue numbers. Brian maintains confidentiality and pivots into describing their data feedback model for brands like Wilson.6:00–8:28 · Guest teaching 3/10 User Metrics and Product Tagging Features Nathan pushes Brian to define what he means by 'using' the platform versus real engagement. Brian explains the metric definitions including MAUs and product locker tagging.8:29–11:02 · Guest teaching 4/10 Grassroots Athlete Influence and Equipment Psychology Brian educates Nathan on grassroots athletic psychology, explaining how kids look up to local phenoms rather than just LeBron James. The tone is collaborative and insightful.11:05–14:35 · Guest teaching 2/10 Capital Raising, Low Salaries, and Bootstrapping Reality Nathan presses Brian to provide specific salary figures rather than generic answers. Brian openly admits to taking a $30k salary and dealing with maxed-out cards.14:36–16:43 · Guest teaching 2/10 Phenom's Team Background and Hiring Outlook Brian describes Phenom's team size, hiring pipeline, and his social media channels in a standard conversational exchange.16:44–21:23 · Guest teaching 1/10 Mid-Interview Sponsor Break and Giveaway Details Nathan conducts a sponsor read and runs through the Famous Five questionnaire in an agreeable atmosphere.1:13–3:38 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Introducing Brian Verne and Phenom's Mission Nathan introduces Brian and asks broad questions about Phenom's business model. Brian explains the thesis about young athletes caring about their gear persona without any tension.3:39–6:00 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Phenom's Business Model and Wilson Partnership Nathan repeatedly presses Brian on how Phenom makes money and asks for confidential revenue numbers. Brian maintains confidentiality and pivots into describing their data feedback model for brands like Wilson.6:00–8:28 · Guest disagreement 1/10 User Metrics and Product Tagging Features Nathan pushes Brian to define what he means by 'using' the platform versus real engagement. Brian explains the metric definitions including MAUs and product locker tagging.8:29–11:02 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Grassroots Athlete Influence and Equipment Psychology Brian educates Nathan on grassroots athletic psychology, explaining how kids look up to local phenoms rather than just LeBron James. The tone is collaborative and insightful.11:05–14:35 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Capital Raising, Low Salaries, and Bootstrapping Reality Nathan presses Brian to provide specific salary figures rather than generic answers. Brian openly admits to taking a $30k salary and dealing with maxed-out cards.14:36–16:43 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Phenom's Team Background and Hiring Outlook Brian describes Phenom's team size, hiring pipeline, and his social media channels in a standard conversational exchange.16:44–21:23 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Mid-Interview Sponsor Break and Giveaway Details Nathan conducts a sponsor read and runs through the Famous Five questionnaire in an agreeable atmosphere.1:13–3:38 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Brian Verne and Phenom's Mission Nathan introduces Brian and asks broad questions about Phenom's business model. Brian explains the thesis about young athletes caring about their gear persona without any tension.3:39–6:00 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Phenom's Business Model and Wilson Partnership Nathan repeatedly presses Brian on how Phenom makes money and asks for confidential revenue numbers. Brian maintains confidentiality and pivots into describing their data feedback model for brands like Wilson.6:00–8:28 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 User Metrics and Product Tagging Features Nathan pushes Brian to define what he means by 'using' the platform versus real engagement. Brian explains the metric definitions including MAUs and product locker tagging.8:29–11:02 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Grassroots Athlete Influence and Equipment Psychology Brian educates Nathan on grassroots athletic psychology, explaining how kids look up to local phenoms rather than just LeBron James. The tone is collaborative and insightful.11:05–14:35 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Capital Raising, Low Salaries, and Bootstrapping Reality Nathan presses Brian to provide specific salary figures rather than generic answers. Brian openly admits to taking a $30k salary and dealing with maxed-out cards.14:36–16:43 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Phenom's Team Background and Hiring Outlook Brian describes Phenom's team size, hiring pipeline, and his social media channels in a standard conversational exchange.16:44–21:23 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Mid-Interview Sponsor Break and Giveaway Details Nathan conducts a sponsor read and runs through the Famous Five questionnaire in an agreeable atmosphere.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 56.3% · guest 43.7%0:00 · Nathan 56.3% · guest 43.7%3:00 · Nathan 22.4% · guest 77.6%3:00 · Nathan 22.4% · guest 77.6%6:00 · Nathan 27.2% · guest 72.8%6:00 · Nathan 27.2% · guest 72.8%9:00 · Nathan 19.1% · guest 80.9%9:00 · Nathan 19.1% · guest 80.9%12:00 · Nathan 10.3% · guest 89.7%12:00 · Nathan 10.3% · guest 89.7%15:00 · Nathan 55.2% · guest 44.8%15:00 · Nathan 55.2% · guest 44.8%18:00 · Nathan 37.7% · guest 62.3%18:00 · Nathan 37.7% · guest 62.3%21:00 · Nathan 77.4% · guest 22.6%21:00 · Nathan 77.4% · guest 22.6%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 4:43 Brian declines to disclose partner numbers

Brian firmly declines Nathan's request to disclose specific revenue figures from the Wilson Sporting Goods contract.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 6:20 Nathan drills into user activity metrics

Nathan interrupts and repeatedly pushes Brian to clarify whether user figures represent real engagement or merely logging in once.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 8:40 Brian explains local athletic influencer dynamics

Brian explains the psychology of youth sports, correcting the notion that young kids only care about national pro superstars like LeBron James.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:27 Nathan refuses generic salary generalizations

Nathan cuts through Brian's vague answer about low salaries and forces him to provide an exact dollar figure for his take-home pay.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Brian Verne and Phenom's Mission 3302 Nathan introduces Brian and asks broad questions about Phenom's business model. Brian explains the thesis about young athletes caring about their gear persona without any tension.
Phenom's Business Model and Wilson Partnership 4315 Nathan repeatedly presses Brian on how Phenom makes money and asks for confidential revenue numbers. Brian maintains confidentiality and pivots into describing their data feedback model for brands like Wilson.
User Metrics and Product Tagging Features 4314 Nathan pushes Brian to define what he means by 'using' the platform versus real engagement. Brian explains the metric definitions including MAUs and product locker tagging.
Grassroots Athlete Influence and Equipment Psychology 2401 Brian educates Nathan on grassroots athletic psychology, explaining how kids look up to local phenoms rather than just LeBron James. The tone is collaborative and insightful.
Capital Raising, Low Salaries, and Bootstrapping Reality 4204 Nathan presses Brian to provide specific salary figures rather than generic answers. Brian openly admits to taking a $30k salary and dealing with maxed-out cards.
Phenom's Team Background and Hiring Outlook 2201 Brian describes Phenom's team size, hiring pipeline, and his social media channels in a standard conversational exchange.
Mid-Interview Sponsor Break and Giveaway Details 2101 Nathan conducts a sponsor read and runs through the Famous Five questionnaire in an agreeable atmosphere.

Statements from this episode (9)

Insight
Verne: Sports brands crave high school athletes over pro influencers
“The brands and the marketers and the retailers are no longer just placing a, you know, value on pro athletes as being influencers. In fact, they absolutely crave the high school athlete segment, but the problem that they have is reaching young athletes at a gr…”
Brian Verne Mar 30, 2016 ▶ 3:45
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Phenom has about 60,000 high school athlete users
“So we have about 60,000 high school athletes that are using the platform.”
Brian Verne Mar 30, 2016 ▶ 6:06
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Phenom peaked at over 25,000 monthly active users in early 2016
“Our general, you know, monthly actives are anywhere from, you know, in the tens of thousands all the way up to, we had, you know, over 25,000 monthly actives you know, in the last in the last quarter at one point.”
Brian Verne Mar 30, 2016 ▶ 6:36
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Phenom users have tagged over 250,000 products to their profiles
“Our users have added over 250,000 products to their phenom profiles”
Brian Verne Mar 30, 2016 ▶ 7:11
Disclosure
Verne: Phenom has raised over $700k including 500 Startups
“So overall, we've raised a little over 700,000 between some notes and some equity, and then, you know, now we're in 500 startups you know, batch 16 here in San Francisco, and so that, you know, that comes with you know, a small investment as well.”
Brian Verne Mar 30, 2016 ▶ 11:56
Disclosure
Brian Verne takes a $30k founder salary and often foregoes pay
“About 30,000 bucks a year, and there are many times where we haven't paid ourselves.”
Brian Verne Mar 30, 2016 ▶ 12:37
Disclosure
Verne: Instagram is the core driver of Phenom's business and growth
“Instagram is, is essentially the basis of our business and how we grow our community.”
Brian Verne Mar 30, 2016 ▶ 16:02
What-if
Knowing startup difficulties early would have caused Brian Verne to quit
“I don't necessarily wish I knew this, because I think we probably would have quit, even during our first startup, but just how difficult, you know, it really is to, you know, build a business, and, you know, to grow it, and to see it scale, and, you know, to d…”
Brian Verne Mar 30, 2016 ▶ 20:14
Assertion Supported
Verne: Phenom moved from Cleveland to SF and joined 500 Startups
“And even if you asked me, you know, four months ago, would I be in San Francisco right now? And we were still in Cleveland. We had just come off our best quarter ever. And I would have told you were crazy. So it's just kind of funny how things work. And you kn…”
Brian Verne Mar 30, 2016 ▶ 21:02
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