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Jun 15, 2016 · 25m · top-founders

He's Making How Much from Text Message Marketing? EP 288: Chris Brisson

Chris Brisson · 11m spoken Nathan Latka · 10m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews Call Loop founder Chris Brisson to examine how he scaled his SMS marketing platform to over $400,000 in annual revenue while buying out inactive co-founders and navigating product commoditization.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 48.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.3 Guest teaching 2.5 Guest disagreement 1.8 Nathan pushing back 4.0
05100:0010:0020:001:07–9:11 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Introducing Chris Brisson and Call Loop's Value Proposition Nathan showcases strong domain knowledge regarding cap tables, dilution, and dead equity from his own experience at Heyo. When Chris attempts to withhold buyout details under NDA, Nathan presses him to at least provide a broad financial range.9:11–13:55 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Call Loop's Revenue Model, Unit Economics, and Costs Chris explains how Call Loop's pay-as-you-go model breaks traditional SaaS analytics like Baremetrics. Nathan systematically drills down into revenue figures, margins on Twilio, and specific monthly customer counts.13:55–18:28 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Product Evolution, Market Commoditization, and Valuation Nathan directly challenges Call Loop's defensibility against venture-backed competitors and Twilio commoditization. When Chris cannot provide an exact MRR number, Nathan calculates the monthly run rate himself on the spot.18:29–24:08 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Mid-Show Promotions, HostGator Sponsorship, and Episode Notes The segment consists of promotional sponsor ad reads and standard 'Famous Five' rapid-fire questions, maintaining an amicable, non-confrontational tone throughout.1:07–9:11 · Guest teaching 2/10 Introducing Chris Brisson and Call Loop's Value Proposition Nathan showcases strong domain knowledge regarding cap tables, dilution, and dead equity from his own experience at Heyo. When Chris attempts to withhold buyout details under NDA, Nathan presses him to at least provide a broad financial range.9:11–13:55 · Guest teaching 4/10 Call Loop's Revenue Model, Unit Economics, and Costs Chris explains how Call Loop's pay-as-you-go model breaks traditional SaaS analytics like Baremetrics. Nathan systematically drills down into revenue figures, margins on Twilio, and specific monthly customer counts.13:55–18:28 · Guest teaching 3/10 Product Evolution, Market Commoditization, and Valuation Nathan directly challenges Call Loop's defensibility against venture-backed competitors and Twilio commoditization. When Chris cannot provide an exact MRR number, Nathan calculates the monthly run rate himself on the spot.18:29–24:08 · Guest teaching 1/10 Mid-Show Promotions, HostGator Sponsorship, and Episode Notes The segment consists of promotional sponsor ad reads and standard 'Famous Five' rapid-fire questions, maintaining an amicable, non-confrontational tone throughout.1:07–9:11 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Introducing Chris Brisson and Call Loop's Value Proposition Nathan showcases strong domain knowledge regarding cap tables, dilution, and dead equity from his own experience at Heyo. When Chris attempts to withhold buyout details under NDA, Nathan presses him to at least provide a broad financial range.9:11–13:55 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Call Loop's Revenue Model, Unit Economics, and Costs Chris explains how Call Loop's pay-as-you-go model breaks traditional SaaS analytics like Baremetrics. Nathan systematically drills down into revenue figures, margins on Twilio, and specific monthly customer counts.13:55–18:28 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Product Evolution, Market Commoditization, and Valuation Nathan directly challenges Call Loop's defensibility against venture-backed competitors and Twilio commoditization. When Chris cannot provide an exact MRR number, Nathan calculates the monthly run rate himself on the spot.18:29–24:08 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Mid-Show Promotions, HostGator Sponsorship, and Episode Notes The segment consists of promotional sponsor ad reads and standard 'Famous Five' rapid-fire questions, maintaining an amicable, non-confrontational tone throughout.1:07–9:11 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Introducing Chris Brisson and Call Loop's Value Proposition Nathan showcases strong domain knowledge regarding cap tables, dilution, and dead equity from his own experience at Heyo. When Chris attempts to withhold buyout details under NDA, Nathan presses him to at least provide a broad financial range.9:11–13:55 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Call Loop's Revenue Model, Unit Economics, and Costs Chris explains how Call Loop's pay-as-you-go model breaks traditional SaaS analytics like Baremetrics. Nathan systematically drills down into revenue figures, margins on Twilio, and specific monthly customer counts.13:55–18:28 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Product Evolution, Market Commoditization, and Valuation Nathan directly challenges Call Loop's defensibility against venture-backed competitors and Twilio commoditization. When Chris cannot provide an exact MRR number, Nathan calculates the monthly run rate himself on the spot.18:29–24:08 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Mid-Show Promotions, HostGator Sponsorship, and Episode Notes The segment consists of promotional sponsor ad reads and standard 'Famous Five' rapid-fire questions, maintaining an amicable, non-confrontational tone throughout.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 64.2% · guest 35.8%0:00 · Nathan 64.2% · guest 35.8%3:00 · Nathan 35.2% · guest 64.8%3:00 · Nathan 35.2% · guest 64.8%6:00 · Nathan 45% · guest 55%6:00 · Nathan 45% · guest 55%9:00 · Nathan 28.9% · guest 71.1%9:00 · Nathan 28.9% · guest 71.1%12:00 · Nathan 28.3% · guest 71.7%12:00 · Nathan 28.3% · guest 71.7%15:00 · Nathan 33.1% · guest 66.9%15:00 · Nathan 33.1% · guest 66.9%18:00 · Nathan 69.4% · guest 30.6%18:00 · Nathan 69.4% · guest 30.6%21:00 · Nathan 64.5% · guest 35.5%21:00 · Nathan 64.5% · guest 35.5%24:00 · Nathan 98.4% · guest 1.6%24:00 · Nathan 98.4% · guest 1.6%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 16:44 Chris scoffs at $500k acquisition offer

Chris immediately and forcefully rejects Nathan's hypothetical buyout scenario, dismissing the $500k figure as far too low.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 8:46 Nathan demands buyout ballparks after guest dodges

After Chris cites an NDA to avoid answering what he paid to buy out his co-founder, Nathan insists on learning the economics and successfully corners him into confirming it was under $100k.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 9:27 Chris reframes business away from standard SaaS metrics

Chris clarifies why Nathan's SaaS assumptions do not fit Call Loop, educating the host on how bulk credit usage and high-frequency buying patterns distort standard recurring revenue metrics.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 15:03 Nathan breaks down the commoditization of SMS wrappers

Nathan demonstrates sharp industry insight by challenging Call Loop's core moat, outlining how thin Twilio margins and well-capitalized competitors offering free tiers could crush them.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Chris Brisson and Call Loop's Value Proposition 6225 Nathan showcases strong domain knowledge regarding cap tables, dilution, and dead equity from his own experience at Heyo. When Chris attempts to withhold buyout details under NDA, Nathan presses him to at least provide a broad financial range.
Call Loop's Revenue Model, Unit Economics, and Costs 5414 Chris explains how Call Loop's pay-as-you-go model breaks traditional SaaS analytics like Baremetrics. Nathan systematically drills down into revenue figures, margins on Twilio, and specific monthly customer counts.
Product Evolution, Market Commoditization, and Valuation 7336 Nathan directly challenges Call Loop's defensibility against venture-backed competitors and Twilio commoditization. When Chris cannot provide an exact MRR number, Nathan calculates the monthly run rate himself on the spot.
Mid-Show Promotions, HostGator Sponsorship, and Episode Notes 3111 The segment consists of promotional sponsor ad reads and standard 'Famous Five' rapid-fire questions, maintaining an amicable, non-confrontational tone throughout.

Statements from this episode (7)

Disclosure
Brisson bought out inactive Call Loop co-founders in 2015
“Yeah, so I bought out my business partners last year. Which would have been 2015, yeah. Yeah, 2015, so end up buying those guys out. They were kind of silent, I would say, for maybe a year and a half, two years, so for them it was you know, it was a nice payda…”
Chris Brisson Jun 15, 2016 ▶ 4:05
Insight
Latka: Dead equity from departed co-founders is a psychological war
“And so that could be psychologically for a founder that has other founders that have left the business that have equity. It's a psychological war. That's very difficult to fight and manage.”
Nathan Latka Jun 15, 2016 ▶ 7:48
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Brisson: Call Loop generated $385k in 2015 revenue
“Yeah, I went to three 85.”
Chris Brisson Jun 15, 2016 ▶ 10:48
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Brisson: Call Loop pays Twilio $0.01 per text, resells for $0.05
“It's servers, you know, the cost we use Twilio, like a lot of different platforms. So we pay a penny for text messages and resell at the high end retail for five cents. And then, you know, down below for bulk plans and that sort of thing.”
Chris Brisson Jun 15, 2016 ▶ 10:55
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Brisson: Call Loop on track for up to $450k revenue in 2016
“So, so taking kind of the last three months trailing, we'll, we'll, you know, we're on track to do for 34 fifties, you know, under, under 500.”
Chris Brisson Jun 15, 2016 ▶ 12:16
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Brisson: Call Loop has had up to 3,000 all-time paying customers
“Or whatever, you know, whatever, you know, I mean, overall, overall there's been, 2000 to 3000 customers that have paid.”
Chris Brisson Jun 15, 2016 ▶ 13:00
Disclosure
Brisson rejects hypothetical $500k cash buyout offer for Call Loop
“No way, Nathan, come on then.”
Chris Brisson Jun 15, 2016 ▶ 16:45
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