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Aug 27, 2016 · 27m · top-founders

EP 399: $1m+ Mattresses Sold using Toptal.com with Adam Tishman of HelixSleep

Adam Tishman · 13m spoken Nathan Latka · 11m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews Helix Sleep co-founder Adam Tishman to discuss how the direct-to-consumer mattress brand achieved over $1 million in early sales by leveraging custom algorithmic software from Toptal, efficient unit economics, and multi-channel audio advertising.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 46% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.7 Guest teaching 3.7 Guest disagreement 1.5 Nathan pushing back 3.7
05100:0010:0020:000:28–4:26 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Weekly Cash Giveaway Announcement and Subscription Contest Nathan probes into industry manufacturing costs and retail markups, estimating COGS at 40-50%. Adam confirms the baseline and explains their direct-to-consumer pricing model.4:26–6:56 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Business Growth Trajectory and Paid Acquisition Strategy Nathan shares his experience with mattress brands sponsoring podcasts while Adam details Helix's paid acquisition channels across digital and audio.6:57–10:57 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Unit Economics, Cash Velocity, and Seed Funding Nathan presses repeatedly for specific CAC dollar figures and uses SaaS 3:1 LTV:CAC ratios as a comparison. Adam declines to reveal proprietary numbers and clarifies that cash velocity from custom made-to-order manufacturing differs from subscription SaaS.10:57–17:01 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Initial Revenue Benchmarks and Early Commercial Performance Nathan probes for early revenue figures and explores using freelance platforms like Toptal to avoid giving up startup equity to developers. Adam reveals they crossed $1M in their first few months and details their technical hiring setup.17:01–20:35 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Customer Experience Priorities and SKU Management Architecture When Adam gives a generic corporate response about customer experience being their main metric, Nathan directly challenges him to share a concrete quantitative target. Adam complies by offering a monthly unit sales milestone.20:35–22:54 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Guest Online Handles and Direct Contact Details Nathan runs through sponsor spots and rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, sleep schedules, and career takeaways.0:28–4:26 · Guest teaching 4/10 Weekly Cash Giveaway Announcement and Subscription Contest Nathan probes into industry manufacturing costs and retail markups, estimating COGS at 40-50%. Adam confirms the baseline and explains their direct-to-consumer pricing model.4:26–6:56 · Guest teaching 3/10 Business Growth Trajectory and Paid Acquisition Strategy Nathan shares his experience with mattress brands sponsoring podcasts while Adam details Helix's paid acquisition channels across digital and audio.6:57–10:57 · Guest teaching 5/10 Unit Economics, Cash Velocity, and Seed Funding Nathan presses repeatedly for specific CAC dollar figures and uses SaaS 3:1 LTV:CAC ratios as a comparison. Adam declines to reveal proprietary numbers and clarifies that cash velocity from custom made-to-order manufacturing differs from subscription SaaS.10:57–17:01 · Guest teaching 4/10 Initial Revenue Benchmarks and Early Commercial Performance Nathan probes for early revenue figures and explores using freelance platforms like Toptal to avoid giving up startup equity to developers. Adam reveals they crossed $1M in their first few months and details their technical hiring setup.17:01–20:35 · Guest teaching 4/10 Customer Experience Priorities and SKU Management Architecture When Adam gives a generic corporate response about customer experience being their main metric, Nathan directly challenges him to share a concrete quantitative target. Adam complies by offering a monthly unit sales milestone.20:35–22:54 · Guest teaching 2/10 Guest Online Handles and Direct Contact Details Nathan runs through sponsor spots and rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, sleep schedules, and career takeaways.0:28–4:26 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Weekly Cash Giveaway Announcement and Subscription Contest Nathan probes into industry manufacturing costs and retail markups, estimating COGS at 40-50%. Adam confirms the baseline and explains their direct-to-consumer pricing model.4:26–6:56 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Business Growth Trajectory and Paid Acquisition Strategy Nathan shares his experience with mattress brands sponsoring podcasts while Adam details Helix's paid acquisition channels across digital and audio.6:57–10:57 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Unit Economics, Cash Velocity, and Seed Funding Nathan presses repeatedly for specific CAC dollar figures and uses SaaS 3:1 LTV:CAC ratios as a comparison. Adam declines to reveal proprietary numbers and clarifies that cash velocity from custom made-to-order manufacturing differs from subscription SaaS.10:57–17:01 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Initial Revenue Benchmarks and Early Commercial Performance Nathan probes for early revenue figures and explores using freelance platforms like Toptal to avoid giving up startup equity to developers. Adam reveals they crossed $1M in their first few months and details their technical hiring setup.17:01–20:35 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Customer Experience Priorities and SKU Management Architecture When Adam gives a generic corporate response about customer experience being their main metric, Nathan directly challenges him to share a concrete quantitative target. Adam complies by offering a monthly unit sales milestone.20:35–22:54 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Guest Online Handles and Direct Contact Details Nathan runs through sponsor spots and rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, sleep schedules, and career takeaways.0:28–4:26 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Weekly Cash Giveaway Announcement and Subscription Contest Nathan probes into industry manufacturing costs and retail markups, estimating COGS at 40-50%. Adam confirms the baseline and explains their direct-to-consumer pricing model.4:26–6:56 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Business Growth Trajectory and Paid Acquisition Strategy Nathan shares his experience with mattress brands sponsoring podcasts while Adam details Helix's paid acquisition channels across digital and audio.6:57–10:57 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Unit Economics, Cash Velocity, and Seed Funding Nathan presses repeatedly for specific CAC dollar figures and uses SaaS 3:1 LTV:CAC ratios as a comparison. Adam declines to reveal proprietary numbers and clarifies that cash velocity from custom made-to-order manufacturing differs from subscription SaaS.10:57–17:01 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Initial Revenue Benchmarks and Early Commercial Performance Nathan probes for early revenue figures and explores using freelance platforms like Toptal to avoid giving up startup equity to developers. Adam reveals they crossed $1M in their first few months and details their technical hiring setup.17:01–20:35 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Customer Experience Priorities and SKU Management Architecture When Adam gives a generic corporate response about customer experience being their main metric, Nathan directly challenges him to share a concrete quantitative target. Adam complies by offering a monthly unit sales milestone.20:35–22:54 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Guest Online Handles and Direct Contact Details Nathan runs through sponsor spots and rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, sleep schedules, and career takeaways.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 55.8% · guest 44.2%0:00 · Nathan 55.8% · guest 44.2%3:00 · Nathan 28.4% · guest 71.6%3:00 · Nathan 28.4% · guest 71.6%6:00 · Nathan 34.4% · guest 65.6%6:00 · Nathan 34.4% · guest 65.6%9:00 · Nathan 42.4% · guest 57.6%9:00 · Nathan 42.4% · guest 57.6%12:00 · Nathan 17.1% · guest 82.9%12:00 · Nathan 17.1% · guest 82.9%15:00 · Nathan 37.2% · guest 62.8%15:00 · Nathan 37.2% · guest 62.8%18:00 · Nathan 42.6% · guest 57.4%18:00 · Nathan 42.6% · guest 57.4%21:00 · Nathan 82% · guest 18%21:00 · Nathan 82% · guest 18%24:00 · Nathan 68.8% · guest 31.2%24:00 · Nathan 68.8% · guest 31.2%27:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%27:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 9:45 Rejecting the high-burn assumption

Adam directly rejects Nathan's suggestion that Helix spends over $400-$500 per acquisition, emphasizing they run the company responsibly without burning reckless cash.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 19:56 Demanding real numbers over PR talk

Nathan cuts through Adam's diplomatic answer about prioritizing customer experience to demand a real quantitative growth goal.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 8:40 Explaining cash velocity in made-to-order manufacturing

Adam explains how immediate revenue collection without holding inventory provides superior cash flow mechanics compared to traditional SaaS subscription timelines.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 8:21 Applying SaaS CAC:LTV benchmarks

Nathan leverages standard SaaS 1:3 CAC to LTV benchmarks to frame and drill down into Adam's willingness to spend on customer acquisition.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Weekly Cash Giveaway Announcement and Subscription Contest 5413 Nathan probes into industry manufacturing costs and retail markups, estimating COGS at 40-50%. Adam confirms the baseline and explains their direct-to-consumer pricing model.
Business Growth Trajectory and Paid Acquisition Strategy 4312 Nathan shares his experience with mattress brands sponsoring podcasts while Adam details Helix's paid acquisition channels across digital and audio.
Unit Economics, Cash Velocity, and Seed Funding 6536 Nathan presses repeatedly for specific CAC dollar figures and uses SaaS 3:1 LTV:CAC ratios as a comparison. Adam declines to reveal proprietary numbers and clarifies that cash velocity from custom made-to-order manufacturing differs from subscription SaaS.
Initial Revenue Benchmarks and Early Commercial Performance 5414 Nathan probes for early revenue figures and explores using freelance platforms like Toptal to avoid giving up startup equity to developers. Adam reveals they crossed $1M in their first few months and details their technical hiring setup.
Customer Experience Priorities and SKU Management Architecture 5426 When Adam gives a generic corporate response about customer experience being their main metric, Nathan directly challenges him to share a concrete quantitative target. Adam complies by offering a monthly unit sales milestone.
Guest Online Handles and Direct Contact Details 3211 Nathan runs through sponsor spots and rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, sleep schedules, and career takeaways.

Statements from this episode (11)

Disclosure
Helix Sleep custom manufactures all of its mattresses in the US
“And then we custom make a mattress for you. A hundred percent here in the U S”
Adam Tishman Aug 27, 2016 ▶ 2:18
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Helix Sleep charges $900 for a mattress retailing up to $3,000
“And so whether you get a firmer mattress, a softer mattress, a more supportive one from us, We charge the same price to the consumer, which is for a queen size, 900 dollars. That product at a retail store would cost closer to two to 3000 dollars, so we're real…”
Adam Tishman Aug 27, 2016 ▶ 2:40
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Traditional retailers sell mattresses with $200-$500 manufacturing costs for $3,000
“What you see in the traditional retail world is markups can range from multiple hundred percent markups. So what costs anywhere from two to four or 500 dollars to make could be sold at a retail store for 3000 dollars.”
Adam Tishman Aug 27, 2016 ▶ 3:06
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Helix Sleep has averaged double-digit month-over-month growth since its launch
“You know, we've averaged since launched well into the double digit growth month over month.”
Adam Tishman Aug 27, 2016 ▶ 5:00
Insight
Audio advertising works well for non-impulse, long-lead mattress purchases
“I think when you think about our category, it's a longer term, longer lead purchase. So people, you know, it's not an impulse driven purchase and it's also something that you're not really buying unless you're in the market for it. And so we find audio to be a…”
Adam Tishman Aug 27, 2016 ▶ 6:36
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Helix Sleep custom builds every mattress and holds virtually no inventory
“We actually custom build everything, and so we don't really hold any inventory.”
Adam Tishman Aug 27, 2016 ▶ 9:05
Assertion Supported
Helix Sleep raised a seed round of just under $1 million
“The seed round was just sub a million dollars.”
Adam Tishman Aug 27, 2016 ▶ 10:16
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Helix Sleep minimized burn and achieved profitable months early on
“What's nice about us is that we've actually been able to minimize burn and actually have already in our short history had months where we were profitable as a business.”
Adam Tishman Aug 27, 2016 ▶ 10:35
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Helix Sleep surpassed $1 million in revenue in its first four months
“You know, it was still, it was over a million for our first four, four months, but, you know, I would say our, it was lower than even what our monthly revenue is now.”
Adam Tishman Aug 27, 2016 ▶ 11:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Helix Sleep operates with hundreds of SKUs due to customizable options
“When you take into account the fact that we create split beds. So we actually can make one bed where there's for couples where the left side is personal, the right side of the other person. When you take that into account, it's in the hundreds.”
Adam Tishman Aug 27, 2016 ▶ 19:19
Opinion
Helix Sleep considers traditional physical retailers its primary competitors, not online brands
“Our biggest competitor are the people think it's the online players, but it's honestly the, it's sort of the traditional retailer. So sleepies mattress.”
Adam Tishman Aug 27, 2016 ▶ 23:49
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