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Nov 10, 2016 · 25m · top-founders

EP 474: SharkTank No Deal, $6M Raised, $4.2M in 2015 Revenue, 10,000 Customers To Help Clean Up Your Online Image with Brandyourself CEO Patrick Ambron

Patrick Ambron · 11m spoken Nathan Latka · 10m spoken
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BrandYourself co-founder and CEO Patrick Ambron joins host Nathan Latka to discuss walking away from a Shark Tank deal, scaling annual revenue past six million dollars, and pivoting the company into proactive digital reputation scoring.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 46.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.8 Guest teaching 2.2 Guest disagreement 0.7 Nathan pushing back 2.3
05100:0010:0020:001:38–3:58 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Patrick Ambron on Walking Away from Shark Tank Latka probes into the exact mechanics of Ambron's Shark Tank deal, pressing on whether the deal was rejected on air or during subsequent due diligence. Ambron clarifies that he walked away on air after an offer of 25% for $2M was made.3:59–10:34 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 BrandYourself Business Model and Online Reputation Use Cases Latka rapidly calculates monthly recurring revenue and run rate from software and professional services splits. Ambron walks through high-ticket services and common reputation damage use cases.10:35–16:24 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Financial Growth, Lancaster Expansion, and Acquisition Economics Latka digs into unit economics, calculating a blended ARPU of $54 and pressing on fully weighted customer acquisition costs by referencing specific staff members listed on the company website. Ambron details why paid acquisition is challenging against legacy competitors.16:25–19:03 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Proactive Reputation Scoring and Future Strategic Vision Latka asks about potential acquisition valuations and investment rounds, mistakenly naming NEA instead of NAV. Ambron politely corrects the investor name and outlines the vision for proactive reputation monitoring.19:05–21:18 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Mid-Episode Sponsorship Break for Drip and HostGator Mid-roll sponsorship segment featuring host promotions for Drip and HostGator.21:18–24:57 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Recap Ambron answers standard rapid-fire questions, with Latka interjecting industry stats about Netflix content spending before providing a full metrics recap of BrandYourself.1:38–3:58 · Guest teaching 2/10 Patrick Ambron on Walking Away from Shark Tank Latka probes into the exact mechanics of Ambron's Shark Tank deal, pressing on whether the deal was rejected on air or during subsequent due diligence. Ambron clarifies that he walked away on air after an offer of 25% for $2M was made.3:59–10:34 · Guest teaching 3/10 BrandYourself Business Model and Online Reputation Use Cases Latka rapidly calculates monthly recurring revenue and run rate from software and professional services splits. Ambron walks through high-ticket services and common reputation damage use cases.10:35–16:24 · Guest teaching 4/10 Financial Growth, Lancaster Expansion, and Acquisition Economics Latka digs into unit economics, calculating a blended ARPU of $54 and pressing on fully weighted customer acquisition costs by referencing specific staff members listed on the company website. Ambron details why paid acquisition is challenging against legacy competitors.16:25–19:03 · Guest teaching 3/10 Proactive Reputation Scoring and Future Strategic Vision Latka asks about potential acquisition valuations and investment rounds, mistakenly naming NEA instead of NAV. Ambron politely corrects the investor name and outlines the vision for proactive reputation monitoring.19:05–21:18 · Guest teaching 0/10 Mid-Episode Sponsorship Break for Drip and HostGator Mid-roll sponsorship segment featuring host promotions for Drip and HostGator.21:18–24:57 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Recap Ambron answers standard rapid-fire questions, with Latka interjecting industry stats about Netflix content spending before providing a full metrics recap of BrandYourself.1:38–3:58 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Patrick Ambron on Walking Away from Shark Tank Latka probes into the exact mechanics of Ambron's Shark Tank deal, pressing on whether the deal was rejected on air or during subsequent due diligence. Ambron clarifies that he walked away on air after an offer of 25% for $2M was made.3:59–10:34 · Guest disagreement 1/10 BrandYourself Business Model and Online Reputation Use Cases Latka rapidly calculates monthly recurring revenue and run rate from software and professional services splits. Ambron walks through high-ticket services and common reputation damage use cases.10:35–16:24 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Financial Growth, Lancaster Expansion, and Acquisition Economics Latka digs into unit economics, calculating a blended ARPU of $54 and pressing on fully weighted customer acquisition costs by referencing specific staff members listed on the company website. Ambron details why paid acquisition is challenging against legacy competitors.16:25–19:03 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Proactive Reputation Scoring and Future Strategic Vision Latka asks about potential acquisition valuations and investment rounds, mistakenly naming NEA instead of NAV. Ambron politely corrects the investor name and outlines the vision for proactive reputation monitoring.19:05–21:18 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Mid-Episode Sponsorship Break for Drip and HostGator Mid-roll sponsorship segment featuring host promotions for Drip and HostGator.21:18–24:57 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Recap Ambron answers standard rapid-fire questions, with Latka interjecting industry stats about Netflix content spending before providing a full metrics recap of BrandYourself.1:38–3:58 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Patrick Ambron on Walking Away from Shark Tank Latka probes into the exact mechanics of Ambron's Shark Tank deal, pressing on whether the deal was rejected on air or during subsequent due diligence. Ambron clarifies that he walked away on air after an offer of 25% for $2M was made.3:59–10:34 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 BrandYourself Business Model and Online Reputation Use Cases Latka rapidly calculates monthly recurring revenue and run rate from software and professional services splits. Ambron walks through high-ticket services and common reputation damage use cases.10:35–16:24 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Financial Growth, Lancaster Expansion, and Acquisition Economics Latka digs into unit economics, calculating a blended ARPU of $54 and pressing on fully weighted customer acquisition costs by referencing specific staff members listed on the company website. Ambron details why paid acquisition is challenging against legacy competitors.16:25–19:03 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Proactive Reputation Scoring and Future Strategic Vision Latka asks about potential acquisition valuations and investment rounds, mistakenly naming NEA instead of NAV. Ambron politely corrects the investor name and outlines the vision for proactive reputation monitoring.19:05–21:18 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Mid-Episode Sponsorship Break for Drip and HostGator Mid-roll sponsorship segment featuring host promotions for Drip and HostGator.21:18–24:57 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Recap Ambron answers standard rapid-fire questions, with Latka interjecting industry stats about Netflix content spending before providing a full metrics recap of BrandYourself.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 75.2% · guest 24.8%0:00 · Nathan 75.2% · guest 24.8%3:00 · Nathan 34.1% · guest 65.9%3:00 · Nathan 34.1% · guest 65.9%6:00 · Nathan 46.5% · guest 53.5%6:00 · Nathan 46.5% · guest 53.5%9:00 · Nathan 20.5% · guest 79.5%9:00 · Nathan 20.5% · guest 79.5%12:00 · Nathan 31.2% · guest 68.8%12:00 · Nathan 31.2% · guest 68.8%15:00 · Nathan 11.6% · guest 88.4%15:00 · Nathan 11.6% · guest 88.4%18:00 · Nathan 81.2% · guest 18.8%18:00 · Nathan 81.2% · guest 18.8%21:00 · Nathan 54.9% · guest 45.1%21:00 · Nathan 54.9% · guest 45.1%24:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%24:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 2:46 Clarifying live refusal on Shark Tank

Ambron firmly clarifies that unlike deals that fall apart quietly in post-show due diligence, he actively and deliberately rejected the sharks' counter-terms on national television.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 14:10 Challenging customer acquisition cost accounting

Latka refuses to accept simple organic CAC claims, drilling down into fully loaded CAC by citing specific sales specialists on BrandYourself's staff page.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 15:55 Explaining keyword bid distortions by enterprise competitors

Ambron educates Latka on why paid search channels are economically unviable for BrandYourself due to high-end legacy players like Reputation.com bidding up AdWords keywords.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 13:12 Synthesizing blended ARPU across bifurcated revenue streams

Latka synthesizes software and professional service figures to calculate an exact blended ARPU of $54 per user per month, framing the baseline unit economics.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Patrick Ambron on Walking Away from Shark Tank 4213 Latka probes into the exact mechanics of Ambron's Shark Tank deal, pressing on whether the deal was rejected on air or during subsequent due diligence. Ambron clarifies that he walked away on air after an offer of 25% for $2M was made.
BrandYourself Business Model and Online Reputation Use Cases 7313 Latka rapidly calculates monthly recurring revenue and run rate from software and professional services splits. Ambron walks through high-ticket services and common reputation damage use cases.
Financial Growth, Lancaster Expansion, and Acquisition Economics 8414 Latka digs into unit economics, calculating a blended ARPU of $54 and pressing on fully weighted customer acquisition costs by referencing specific staff members listed on the company website. Ambron details why paid acquisition is challenging against legacy competitors.
Proactive Reputation Scoring and Future Strategic Vision 5313 Latka asks about potential acquisition valuations and investment rounds, mistakenly naming NEA instead of NAV. Ambron politely corrects the investor name and outlines the vision for proactive reputation monitoring.
Mid-Episode Sponsorship Break for Drip and HostGator 0000 Mid-roll sponsorship segment featuring host promotions for Drip and HostGator.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Recap 5101 Ambron answers standard rapid-fire questions, with Latka interjecting industry stats about Netflix content spending before providing a full metrics recap of BrandYourself.

Statements from this episode (16)

Disclosure
Ambron: BrandYourself turned down a $2M Shark Tank offer from Robert Herjavec
“We got offered a deal, a two million dollar deal from Robert Herjavec, but we did not take it.”
Patrick Ambron Nov 10, 2016 ▶ 2:01
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ambron: Shark Tank exposure brought BrandYourself over $1M in extra revenue
“In that first three or four month stretch following the airing we probably did Over a million dollars in revenue on top of what we normally did in that short period of time, because you know, the exposure was just unbelievable.”
Patrick Ambron Nov 10, 2016 ▶ 2:19
Assertion Partly supported
Ambron: BrandYourself asked Shark Tank for $2M at 13% equity
“I asked for two million for 13%.”
Patrick Ambron Nov 10, 2016 ▶ 3:31
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ambron: Professional services generate about half of BrandYourself revenue
“In fact, about half of our revenue ends up being that. So yeah, we, a lot of people upsell to a professional service.”
Patrick Ambron Nov 10, 2016 ▶ 5:02
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ambron: BrandYourself has around 10,000 software and thousands of service customers
“Of those at any given time, probably have about, say, 10,000 people paying us for software, and then a few thousand paying us for professional services.”
Patrick Ambron Nov 10, 2016 ▶ 5:31
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ambron: BrandYourself charges $80/year for software and $10,000/year for services
“So software people are paying us, people using the software which is, you know, the bulk of those people are, you know, are seven bucks a month ish. It works out because they're mostly paying about 80 bucks a year. And but when you get to professional services…”
Patrick Ambron Nov 10, 2016 ▶ 6:00
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ambron: BrandYourself is at a $6M-$7M annual run rate
“So, you know, we're at this year at about say a six, seven million dollar run rate.”
Patrick Ambron Nov 10, 2016 ▶ 6:50
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ambron: BrandYourself generated about $4.2M in revenue in 2015
“Just about 4.2 million.”
Patrick Ambron Nov 10, 2016 ▶ 10:40
Disclosure
Ambron: BrandYourself has raised about $6M in total capital
“After we raised some capital, our last raise was about a few months ago, which puts us at about six million.”
Patrick Ambron Nov 10, 2016 ▶ 10:54
Disclosure
Ambron: BrandYourself raised a total $4M Series A round
“We had an extended series A that was a total of four million dollars.”
Patrick Ambron Nov 10, 2016 ▶ 11:03
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ambron: BrandYourself headcount is approximately 75 employees
“Just about 75 employees.”
Patrick Ambron Nov 10, 2016 ▶ 11:19
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ambron: BrandYourself average customer tenure is just over a year
“A customer generally lasts, whether they're using a software or they're using professional services they're going to last just over a year. Cause that's about how long it takes us to either fix the problem or do as much as we can.”
Patrick Ambron Nov 10, 2016 ▶ 12:34
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ambron: BrandYourself fully weighted CAC is under $100
“When you put that in, our cost per acquisition is, is relatively low. It's under a hundred dollars.”
Patrick Ambron Nov 10, 2016 ▶ 14:31
Insight
Ambron: High-end rivals inflated AdWords prices for reputation keywords
“Our big competitors like reputation.com who charge a lot more money than us and they go for a different type. And there's a few boutiques similar to them. They have raised the price of those, you know, say AdWords and things like that, that, you know, we've ne…”
Patrick Ambron Nov 10, 2016 ▶ 16:00
Disclosure
Ambron: BrandYourself raised at a ~$20M valuation
“No, just about twenty million.”
Patrick Ambron Nov 10, 2016 ▶ 18:28
Disclosure
Ambron: Latest funding round was from NAV and Founders Fund
“NA, so this last round was NAV, New Atlantic Ventures and Founders Fund.”
Patrick Ambron Nov 10, 2016 ▶ 18:43
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