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Nov 30, 2016 · 23m · top-founders

EP 494: PDFFiller $10M+ Revenue, 200k Customers To make Document Signing/Management Easier with CEO Borya Shakhnovich

Borya (Boris) Shakhnovich · 10m spoken Nathan Latka · 10m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews PDFfiller co-founder Boris Shakhnovich, exploring how the bootstrapped SaaS document management platform scaled to over $10 million in revenue and 200,000 paying customers using proprietary marketing automation and high-efficiency unit economics.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 50.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.2 Guest teaching 2.6 Guest disagreement 1.4 Nathan pushing back 3.2
05100:0010:0020:002:26–6:47 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 PDFfiller Product Capabilities, SaaS Pricing, and Key Metrics Nathan presses Borya on specific SaaS churn benchmarks, prompting Borya to break down the difference between their transactional prosumer churn and enterprise retention.6:48–12:18 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Automated Marketing Technology, Keyword Engines, and Customer Acquisition Costs Nathan pulls up live backlink and keyword data from Ahrefs to query PDFfiller's marketing engine, then swiftly calculates LTV and CAC metrics, earning direct praise from Borya.12:21–15:43 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Bootstrapping Success, Distributed Engineering Team, and Enterprise Growth Borya outlines their bootstrapped growth to double-digit millions in revenue with 160 employees and zero sales representatives, relying purely on product-led growth and automation.15:44–17:56 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Strategic Acquisitions and M&A Opportunities in Document Management Nathan asks about M&A strategy and assumes they only purchase complementary tools, leading Borya to clarify how they acquire niche direct competitors to integrate into PDFfiller.18:12–22:20 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Mid-Roll Sponsor Spotlight: Drip Marketing Automation and HostGator Segment includes mid-roll sponsor spots for Drip and HostGator, followed by the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire and episode wrap-up.2:26–6:47 · Guest teaching 4/10 PDFfiller Product Capabilities, SaaS Pricing, and Key Metrics Nathan presses Borya on specific SaaS churn benchmarks, prompting Borya to break down the difference between their transactional prosumer churn and enterprise retention.6:48–12:18 · Guest teaching 3/10 Automated Marketing Technology, Keyword Engines, and Customer Acquisition Costs Nathan pulls up live backlink and keyword data from Ahrefs to query PDFfiller's marketing engine, then swiftly calculates LTV and CAC metrics, earning direct praise from Borya.12:21–15:43 · Guest teaching 2/10 Bootstrapping Success, Distributed Engineering Team, and Enterprise Growth Borya outlines their bootstrapped growth to double-digit millions in revenue with 160 employees and zero sales representatives, relying purely on product-led growth and automation.15:44–17:56 · Guest teaching 3/10 Strategic Acquisitions and M&A Opportunities in Document Management Nathan asks about M&A strategy and assumes they only purchase complementary tools, leading Borya to clarify how they acquire niche direct competitors to integrate into PDFfiller.18:12–22:20 · Guest teaching 1/10 Mid-Roll Sponsor Spotlight: Drip Marketing Automation and HostGator Segment includes mid-roll sponsor spots for Drip and HostGator, followed by the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire and episode wrap-up.2:26–6:47 · Guest disagreement 1/10 PDFfiller Product Capabilities, SaaS Pricing, and Key Metrics Nathan presses Borya on specific SaaS churn benchmarks, prompting Borya to break down the difference between their transactional prosumer churn and enterprise retention.6:48–12:18 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Automated Marketing Technology, Keyword Engines, and Customer Acquisition Costs Nathan pulls up live backlink and keyword data from Ahrefs to query PDFfiller's marketing engine, then swiftly calculates LTV and CAC metrics, earning direct praise from Borya.12:21–15:43 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Bootstrapping Success, Distributed Engineering Team, and Enterprise Growth Borya outlines their bootstrapped growth to double-digit millions in revenue with 160 employees and zero sales representatives, relying purely on product-led growth and automation.15:44–17:56 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Strategic Acquisitions and M&A Opportunities in Document Management Nathan asks about M&A strategy and assumes they only purchase complementary tools, leading Borya to clarify how they acquire niche direct competitors to integrate into PDFfiller.18:12–22:20 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Mid-Roll Sponsor Spotlight: Drip Marketing Automation and HostGator Segment includes mid-roll sponsor spots for Drip and HostGator, followed by the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire and episode wrap-up.2:26–6:47 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 PDFfiller Product Capabilities, SaaS Pricing, and Key Metrics Nathan presses Borya on specific SaaS churn benchmarks, prompting Borya to break down the difference between their transactional prosumer churn and enterprise retention.6:48–12:18 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Automated Marketing Technology, Keyword Engines, and Customer Acquisition Costs Nathan pulls up live backlink and keyword data from Ahrefs to query PDFfiller's marketing engine, then swiftly calculates LTV and CAC metrics, earning direct praise from Borya.12:21–15:43 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Bootstrapping Success, Distributed Engineering Team, and Enterprise Growth Borya outlines their bootstrapped growth to double-digit millions in revenue with 160 employees and zero sales representatives, relying purely on product-led growth and automation.15:44–17:56 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Strategic Acquisitions and M&A Opportunities in Document Management Nathan asks about M&A strategy and assumes they only purchase complementary tools, leading Borya to clarify how they acquire niche direct competitors to integrate into PDFfiller.18:12–22:20 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Mid-Roll Sponsor Spotlight: Drip Marketing Automation and HostGator Segment includes mid-roll sponsor spots for Drip and HostGator, followed by the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire and episode wrap-up.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 86.8% · guest 13.2%0:00 · Nathan 86.8% · guest 13.2%3:00 · Nathan 29.5% · guest 70.5%3:00 · Nathan 29.5% · guest 70.5%6:00 · Nathan 24.2% · guest 75.8%6:00 · Nathan 24.2% · guest 75.8%9:00 · Nathan 38% · guest 62%9:00 · Nathan 38% · guest 62%12:00 · Nathan 41.8% · guest 58.2%12:00 · Nathan 41.8% · guest 58.2%15:00 · Nathan 19.4% · guest 80.6%15:00 · Nathan 19.4% · guest 80.6%18:00 · Nathan 85.6% · guest 14.4%18:00 · Nathan 85.6% · guest 14.4%21:00 · Nathan 83.3% · guest 16.7%21:00 · Nathan 83.3% · guest 16.7%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 16:38 Borya corrects Nathan's assumption on acquisition strategy

When Nathan claims PDFfiller would never buy a direct competitor, Borya directly corrects him, clarifying they acquire direct competitors in specific product sub-categories.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 5:42 Nathan challenges Borya on generic churn numbers

Nathan refuses a vague 'single digit' churn answer, contrasting 2% versus 9% SaaS benchmarks and forcing Borya to explain the granular business split.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 6:58 Borya details sixty million automated keywords engine

Borya educates Nathan on the proprietary programmatic engine generating 60M search keywords and dynamic AB-tested landing pages internally.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 11:50 Nathan models unit economics on the fly

Nathan runs a back-of-the-napkin calculation on 5% weighted churn, $10 ARPU, $200 LTV, and sub-$10 CAC, prompting Borya to admit he is very impressed with Nathan's fluency in numbers.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
PDFfiller Product Capabilities, SaaS Pricing, and Key Metrics 6414 Nathan presses Borya on specific SaaS churn benchmarks, prompting Borya to break down the difference between their transactional prosumer churn and enterprise retention.
Automated Marketing Technology, Keyword Engines, and Customer Acquisition Costs 8324 Nathan pulls up live backlink and keyword data from Ahrefs to query PDFfiller's marketing engine, then swiftly calculates LTV and CAC metrics, earning direct praise from Borya.
Bootstrapping Success, Distributed Engineering Team, and Enterprise Growth 5213 Borya outlines their bootstrapped growth to double-digit millions in revenue with 160 employees and zero sales representatives, relying purely on product-led growth and automation.
Strategic Acquisitions and M&A Opportunities in Document Management 5324 Nathan asks about M&A strategy and assumes they only purchase complementary tools, leading Borya to clarify how they acquire niche direct competitors to integrate into PDFfiller.
Mid-Roll Sponsor Spotlight: Drip Marketing Automation and HostGator 2111 Segment includes mid-roll sponsor spots for Drip and HostGator, followed by the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire and episode wrap-up.

Statements from this episode (9)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Shakhnovich: PDFfiller has close to 200k customers and 150 employees
“And now we have close to 200,000 customers and 150 people working for the company.”
Borya (Boris) Shakhnovich Nov 30, 2016 ▶ 4:36
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Shakhnovich: PDFfiller enterprise churn is under 2%, transactional churn near 9%
“The transactional part of the business is closer to the nine percent. The actual, you know, enterprise part of the business is much lower than two.”
Borya (Boris) Shakhnovich Nov 30, 2016 ▶ 6:30
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Shakhnovich: PDFfiller manages 60M keywords and 4M monthly visitors
“We run sixty million keywords on top of SEO, SEM, And other digital marketing channels with tens of millions of landing pages that brings about four million people to the website on a monthly basis.”
Borya (Boris) Shakhnovich Nov 30, 2016 ▶ 7:06
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Shakhnovich: PDFfiller recovers customer acquisition cost on first payment
“So we make money on the first payment.”
Borya (Boris) Shakhnovich Nov 30, 2016 ▶ 11:41
Disclosure
Shakhnovich: PDFfiller is completely bootstrapped and self-funded
“Self-funded, completely bootstrapped.”
Borya (Boris) Shakhnovich Nov 30, 2016 ▶ 12:52
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Shakhnovich: PDFfiller reached double-digit millions in 2015 revenue
“In 2015, that was last year. It's double digit millions.”
Borya (Boris) Shakhnovich Nov 30, 2016 ▶ 13:38
Disclosure
Shakhnovich: PDFfiller operates with zero salespeople
“Oh, by the way I forgot to mention we have zero salespeople.”
Borya (Boris) Shakhnovich Nov 30, 2016 ▶ 14:41
Disclosure
Shakhnovich: PDFfiller targets M&A in mail merge, CRM, and signatures
“So we are looking in all of those places, right? So we are looking in all of those places, right? So we're looking in the mail merge space. We're looking in the, you know, the CRM space. We're looking in the signature space.”
Borya (Boris) Shakhnovich Nov 30, 2016 ▶ 17:23
Assertion Open · timeframe Nov 2016
Latka: Competitor DocHub has 15 million users but only $90K MRR
“Chris's company has over fifteen million users and 90,000 in monthly recurring revenue with his company, DocHub, making documents signing easier.”
Nathan Latka Nov 30, 2016 ▶ 22:26
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