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Feb 21, 2017 · 20m · top-founders

EP 577: Vinod Khosla, Others Invest $600k+ In Ex-Intuit Founder Providing Financing Against Invoices with Numberz CEO Aditya Tulsian

Addy Tulsihan · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 8m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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Host Nathan Latka interviews Numberz CEO Aditya Tulsian to explore how the ex-Intuit founder built a hybrid cash flow management and invoice discounting platform for small businesses. Tulsian shares key metrics behind scaling to 1,200 paying customers, $18,500 in MRR, and securing $650,000 in seed funding from Vinod Khosla and Kae Capital.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 46.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.2 Guest teaching 1.8 Guest disagreement 1.3 Nathan pushing back 3.7
05100:0010:0020:001:03–4:04 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Introducing Aditya Tulsian and Background on Numberz Nathan quickly grasps Numberz's business model and accurately translates it into invoice discounting and receivable financing. Addy confirms the description and explains their 50/50 revenue split between SaaS and financial partner commissions.4:05–6:49 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Dissecting SaaS Pricing Tiers, Realized ARPU, and Transaction Fees Nathan drills down into pricing tiers and realized annual ARPU ($185-$195). Addy clarifies a nuance when Nathan assumes all invoices incur transaction fees, explaining that large corporate invoices bypass gateways entirely.6:49–9:04 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Founder Origins, Quitting Corporate at 34, and Lean MVP Validation Nathan probes Addy's background leaving Intuit at age 34 and validating the MVP with $5k in revenue before building software. The tone is highly conversational and inquisitive.9:04–13:13 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Clarifying 2016 Financial Performance, Customer Base, and Recurring Revenue Nathan catches major discrepancies when Addy agrees that 5,500 users at $15/mo equals $84k MRR despite 2016 total revenue being only $85k. Nathan aggressively pushes back until Addy admits only 1,200 customers are paid, resetting true SaaS MRR to ~$18.5k.13:13–16:28 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Customer Acquisition Channels, Paid Acquisition CAC, and Churn Metrics Addy shares customer acquisition channels and quotes an 85% retention rate over a multi-month period. Nathan does the compounding math to convert that cohort figure into an underlying 2-3% monthly churn rate.16:29–19:06 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Team Composition, Operating Locations, and Seed Funding from Vinod Khosla Addy details their $650k equity seed round from Vinod Khosla and Kae Capital, followed by a friendly 'Famous Five' rapid-fire wrap-up.1:03–4:04 · Guest teaching 2/10 Introducing Aditya Tulsian and Background on Numberz Nathan quickly grasps Numberz's business model and accurately translates it into invoice discounting and receivable financing. Addy confirms the description and explains their 50/50 revenue split between SaaS and financial partner commissions.4:05–6:49 · Guest teaching 4/10 Dissecting SaaS Pricing Tiers, Realized ARPU, and Transaction Fees Nathan drills down into pricing tiers and realized annual ARPU ($185-$195). Addy clarifies a nuance when Nathan assumes all invoices incur transaction fees, explaining that large corporate invoices bypass gateways entirely.6:49–9:04 · Guest teaching 2/10 Founder Origins, Quitting Corporate at 34, and Lean MVP Validation Nathan probes Addy's background leaving Intuit at age 34 and validating the MVP with $5k in revenue before building software. The tone is highly conversational and inquisitive.9:04–13:13 · Guest teaching 1/10 Clarifying 2016 Financial Performance, Customer Base, and Recurring Revenue Nathan catches major discrepancies when Addy agrees that 5,500 users at $15/mo equals $84k MRR despite 2016 total revenue being only $85k. Nathan aggressively pushes back until Addy admits only 1,200 customers are paid, resetting true SaaS MRR to ~$18.5k.13:13–16:28 · Guest teaching 1/10 Customer Acquisition Channels, Paid Acquisition CAC, and Churn Metrics Addy shares customer acquisition channels and quotes an 85% retention rate over a multi-month period. Nathan does the compounding math to convert that cohort figure into an underlying 2-3% monthly churn rate.16:29–19:06 · Guest teaching 1/10 Team Composition, Operating Locations, and Seed Funding from Vinod Khosla Addy details their $650k equity seed round from Vinod Khosla and Kae Capital, followed by a friendly 'Famous Five' rapid-fire wrap-up.1:03–4:04 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Aditya Tulsian and Background on Numberz Nathan quickly grasps Numberz's business model and accurately translates it into invoice discounting and receivable financing. Addy confirms the description and explains their 50/50 revenue split between SaaS and financial partner commissions.4:05–6:49 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Dissecting SaaS Pricing Tiers, Realized ARPU, and Transaction Fees Nathan drills down into pricing tiers and realized annual ARPU ($185-$195). Addy clarifies a nuance when Nathan assumes all invoices incur transaction fees, explaining that large corporate invoices bypass gateways entirely.6:49–9:04 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Founder Origins, Quitting Corporate at 34, and Lean MVP Validation Nathan probes Addy's background leaving Intuit at age 34 and validating the MVP with $5k in revenue before building software. The tone is highly conversational and inquisitive.9:04–13:13 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Clarifying 2016 Financial Performance, Customer Base, and Recurring Revenue Nathan catches major discrepancies when Addy agrees that 5,500 users at $15/mo equals $84k MRR despite 2016 total revenue being only $85k. Nathan aggressively pushes back until Addy admits only 1,200 customers are paid, resetting true SaaS MRR to ~$18.5k.13:13–16:28 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Customer Acquisition Channels, Paid Acquisition CAC, and Churn Metrics Addy shares customer acquisition channels and quotes an 85% retention rate over a multi-month period. Nathan does the compounding math to convert that cohort figure into an underlying 2-3% monthly churn rate.16:29–19:06 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Team Composition, Operating Locations, and Seed Funding from Vinod Khosla Addy details their $650k equity seed round from Vinod Khosla and Kae Capital, followed by a friendly 'Famous Five' rapid-fire wrap-up.1:03–4:04 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Aditya Tulsian and Background on Numberz Nathan quickly grasps Numberz's business model and accurately translates it into invoice discounting and receivable financing. Addy confirms the description and explains their 50/50 revenue split between SaaS and financial partner commissions.4:05–6:49 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Dissecting SaaS Pricing Tiers, Realized ARPU, and Transaction Fees Nathan drills down into pricing tiers and realized annual ARPU ($185-$195). Addy clarifies a nuance when Nathan assumes all invoices incur transaction fees, explaining that large corporate invoices bypass gateways entirely.6:49–9:04 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Founder Origins, Quitting Corporate at 34, and Lean MVP Validation Nathan probes Addy's background leaving Intuit at age 34 and validating the MVP with $5k in revenue before building software. The tone is highly conversational and inquisitive.9:04–13:13 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Clarifying 2016 Financial Performance, Customer Base, and Recurring Revenue Nathan catches major discrepancies when Addy agrees that 5,500 users at $15/mo equals $84k MRR despite 2016 total revenue being only $85k. Nathan aggressively pushes back until Addy admits only 1,200 customers are paid, resetting true SaaS MRR to ~$18.5k.13:13–16:28 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Customer Acquisition Channels, Paid Acquisition CAC, and Churn Metrics Addy shares customer acquisition channels and quotes an 85% retention rate over a multi-month period. Nathan does the compounding math to convert that cohort figure into an underlying 2-3% monthly churn rate.16:29–19:06 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Team Composition, Operating Locations, and Seed Funding from Vinod Khosla Addy details their $650k equity seed round from Vinod Khosla and Kae Capital, followed by a friendly 'Famous Five' rapid-fire wrap-up.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 61.5% · guest 38.5%0:00 · Nathan 61.5% · guest 38.5%3:00 · Nathan 37.7% · guest 62.3%3:00 · Nathan 37.7% · guest 62.3%6:00 · Nathan 39.6% · guest 60.4%6:00 · Nathan 39.6% · guest 60.4%9:00 · Nathan 46.6% · guest 53.4%9:00 · Nathan 46.6% · guest 53.4%12:00 · Nathan 27.6% · guest 72.4%12:00 · Nathan 27.6% · guest 72.4%15:00 · Nathan 32.2% · guest 67.8%15:00 · Nathan 32.2% · guest 67.8%18:00 · Nathan 92.4% · guest 7.6%18:00 · Nathan 92.4% · guest 7.6%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 11:43 Addy walks back mixed revenue metrics

Addy pushes back on the host's premise by acknowledging he gave contradictory figures earlier and recalibrates his pricing history and revenue numbers.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 11:09 Latka calls out contradictory MRR confirmation

Nathan directly interrogates Addy on why he affirmed an $84k monthly MRR calculation when total annual revenue was only $85k, demanding clarification on paying vs freemium users.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 5:59 Addy explains bank-to-bank receivable transactions

Addy educates Nathan on why large corporate invoice discounting does not generate platform transaction fees because enterprise settlements occur directly between bank accounts.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 16:05 Latka converts 6-month retention to monthly churn

Nathan demonstrates analytical mastery by taking Addy's 85% 6-month retention rate and instantly deducing the compounded 2-3% monthly churn rate.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Aditya Tulsian and Background on Numberz 5212 Nathan quickly grasps Numberz's business model and accurately translates it into invoice discounting and receivable financing. Addy confirms the description and explains their 50/50 revenue split between SaaS and financial partner commissions.
Dissecting SaaS Pricing Tiers, Realized ARPU, and Transaction Fees 5423 Nathan drills down into pricing tiers and realized annual ARPU ($185-$195). Addy clarifies a nuance when Nathan assumes all invoices incur transaction fees, explaining that large corporate invoices bypass gateways entirely.
Founder Origins, Quitting Corporate at 34, and Lean MVP Validation 3212 Nathan probes Addy's background leaving Intuit at age 34 and validating the MVP with $5k in revenue before building software. The tone is highly conversational and inquisitive.
Clarifying 2016 Financial Performance, Customer Base, and Recurring Revenue 8128 Nathan catches major discrepancies when Addy agrees that 5,500 users at $15/mo equals $84k MRR despite 2016 total revenue being only $85k. Nathan aggressively pushes back until Addy admits only 1,200 customers are paid, resetting true SaaS MRR to ~$18.5k.
Customer Acquisition Channels, Paid Acquisition CAC, and Churn Metrics 7126 Addy shares customer acquisition channels and quotes an 85% retention rate over a multi-month period. Nathan does the compounding math to convert that cohort figure into an underlying 2-3% monthly churn rate.
Team Composition, Operating Locations, and Seed Funding from Vinod Khosla 3101 Addy details their $650k equity seed round from Vinod Khosla and Kae Capital, followed by a friendly 'Famous Five' rapid-fire wrap-up.

Statements from this episode (9)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Numberz revenue is split 50-50 between SaaS and commissions
“It's like a fifty-fifty split. 50% comes from the software as a service and 50% comes from the commissions that we get from the financial institutions.”
Addy Tulsihan Feb 21, 2017 ▶ 2:13
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Numberz realizes $185 to $195 annual ARPU per customer
“Our average customer ends up being somewhere around about or the overall realization is anywhere between you know, one 85 to one 95 dollars.”
Addy Tulsihan Feb 21, 2017 ▶ 5:00
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Numberz takes a 2% fee on $5K-$7.5K annual customer volume
“The transaction fee comes to somewhere around about two percent of every transaction that is done on the platform. So, and on average, they end up doing anywhere between you know, some about 5000 to seven and a half thousand us dollars every year on an average…”
Addy Tulsihan Feb 21, 2017 ▶ 5:25
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Numberz earned its initial revenue manually before building any software
“Actually we got that money really that at that point of time we had not built any software. We were, we always believed in this lean startup principle. So we actually started trying to help our customers get invoice discounting from our partner financial insti…”
Addy Tulsihan Feb 21, 2017 ▶ 8:29
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Numberz generated approximately $85,000 in total revenue in 2016
“I would say now we are we closed this on about 85,000 dollars in total revenue.”
Addy Tulsihan Feb 21, 2017 ▶ 9:15
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Numberz hosts 5,500 businesses and up to 9,000 platform users
“In terms of total number of users, we have I think so eight and a half to 9000 users, but in terms of unique businesses, we have 5500.”
Addy Tulsihan Feb 21, 2017 ▶ 9:47
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Numberz has approximately 1,200 paying customers in January 2017
“I think we'll have around about 1200 paying customers right now.”
Addy Tulsihan Feb 21, 2017 ▶ 10:58
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Numberz paid customer acquisition cost is nearly $150
“The paid acquisitions is okay, so let me say our cost of acquisition right now for a paid is nearly close to US, a 150 dollars.”
Addy Tulsihan Feb 21, 2017 ▶ 14:21
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Numberz lost nearly 3% of customers monthly in H1 2016
“By high, I mean, we were almost losing close to, you know, three percent of our base every month in the first six months of 2016.”
Addy Tulsihan Feb 21, 2017 ▶ 14:54
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