StarZero All shows Try the podcast clipper →

Jun 17, 2017 · 22m · top-founders

693: How to 3x SaaS Revenue in 8 Months from $25k to $85k

Victor Levitin · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 9m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Nathan Latka interviews Crazy Lister CEO Victor Levitin on how the e-commerce listing platform tripled its monthly recurring revenue to over eighty thousand dollars through high-ROI Google AdWords acquisition, tier-based pricing optimization, and capital-efficient operations.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 48.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 6.2 Guest teaching 3.8 Guest disagreement 1.3 Nathan pushing back 2.8
05100:0010:0020:001:20–3:29 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Crazy Lister Overview and Rapid ARR Growth Latka immediately contextualizes the business metrics from their prior conversation and does quick mental math on MRR tripling and run rates. The dynamic is collaborative and welcoming.3:29–5:54 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Scaling Paid Acquisition and Google AdWords Strategy Latka drills into customer acquisition unit economics, calculating LTV directly from Levitin's 1:8 ratio. Levitin details channel experiments and keyword specifics.5:54–8:25 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Fundraising Strategy, Cash Flow, and Market Expansion Latka challenges Levitin on why he would raise capital if the company is already cash flow positive with a 10-person team. Levitin explains the strategic goal of expanding beyond eBay.8:25–11:04 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Optimizing Pricing Tiers and Increasing Customer ARPU Latka divides total MRR by customer count to determine an increase in ARPU from $15 to $23. Levitin elaborates on tier segmentation and feature gating.11:04–15:38 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Team Pillars, Paid Marketing Specialist, and Ad Budget Latka aggressively asks why they aren't dumping massive capital into paid acquisition given the ROI, briefly mishearing the monthly spend before Levitin clarifies keyword volume limitations.15:38–17:26 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Revenue Trajectory, Churn Metrics, and Listing Retention Latka asks about retention and churn drivers. Levitin educates the host on the divergence between 3% churn for business users and 10% for casual sellers.1:20–3:29 · Guest teaching 2/10 Crazy Lister Overview and Rapid ARR Growth Latka immediately contextualizes the business metrics from their prior conversation and does quick mental math on MRR tripling and run rates. The dynamic is collaborative and welcoming.3:29–5:54 · Guest teaching 4/10 Scaling Paid Acquisition and Google AdWords Strategy Latka drills into customer acquisition unit economics, calculating LTV directly from Levitin's 1:8 ratio. Levitin details channel experiments and keyword specifics.5:54–8:25 · Guest teaching 4/10 Fundraising Strategy, Cash Flow, and Market Expansion Latka challenges Levitin on why he would raise capital if the company is already cash flow positive with a 10-person team. Levitin explains the strategic goal of expanding beyond eBay.8:25–11:04 · Guest teaching 4/10 Optimizing Pricing Tiers and Increasing Customer ARPU Latka divides total MRR by customer count to determine an increase in ARPU from $15 to $23. Levitin elaborates on tier segmentation and feature gating.11:04–15:38 · Guest teaching 5/10 Team Pillars, Paid Marketing Specialist, and Ad Budget Latka aggressively asks why they aren't dumping massive capital into paid acquisition given the ROI, briefly mishearing the monthly spend before Levitin clarifies keyword volume limitations.15:38–17:26 · Guest teaching 4/10 Revenue Trajectory, Churn Metrics, and Listing Retention Latka asks about retention and churn drivers. Levitin educates the host on the divergence between 3% churn for business users and 10% for casual sellers.1:20–3:29 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Crazy Lister Overview and Rapid ARR Growth Latka immediately contextualizes the business metrics from their prior conversation and does quick mental math on MRR tripling and run rates. The dynamic is collaborative and welcoming.3:29–5:54 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Scaling Paid Acquisition and Google AdWords Strategy Latka drills into customer acquisition unit economics, calculating LTV directly from Levitin's 1:8 ratio. Levitin details channel experiments and keyword specifics.5:54–8:25 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Fundraising Strategy, Cash Flow, and Market Expansion Latka challenges Levitin on why he would raise capital if the company is already cash flow positive with a 10-person team. Levitin explains the strategic goal of expanding beyond eBay.8:25–11:04 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Optimizing Pricing Tiers and Increasing Customer ARPU Latka divides total MRR by customer count to determine an increase in ARPU from $15 to $23. Levitin elaborates on tier segmentation and feature gating.11:04–15:38 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Team Pillars, Paid Marketing Specialist, and Ad Budget Latka aggressively asks why they aren't dumping massive capital into paid acquisition given the ROI, briefly mishearing the monthly spend before Levitin clarifies keyword volume limitations.15:38–17:26 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Revenue Trajectory, Churn Metrics, and Listing Retention Latka asks about retention and churn drivers. Levitin educates the host on the divergence between 3% churn for business users and 10% for casual sellers.1:20–3:29 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Crazy Lister Overview and Rapid ARR Growth Latka immediately contextualizes the business metrics from their prior conversation and does quick mental math on MRR tripling and run rates. The dynamic is collaborative and welcoming.3:29–5:54 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Scaling Paid Acquisition and Google AdWords Strategy Latka drills into customer acquisition unit economics, calculating LTV directly from Levitin's 1:8 ratio. Levitin details channel experiments and keyword specifics.5:54–8:25 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Fundraising Strategy, Cash Flow, and Market Expansion Latka challenges Levitin on why he would raise capital if the company is already cash flow positive with a 10-person team. Levitin explains the strategic goal of expanding beyond eBay.8:25–11:04 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Optimizing Pricing Tiers and Increasing Customer ARPU Latka divides total MRR by customer count to determine an increase in ARPU from $15 to $23. Levitin elaborates on tier segmentation and feature gating.11:04–15:38 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Team Pillars, Paid Marketing Specialist, and Ad Budget Latka aggressively asks why they aren't dumping massive capital into paid acquisition given the ROI, briefly mishearing the monthly spend before Levitin clarifies keyword volume limitations.15:38–17:26 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Revenue Trajectory, Churn Metrics, and Listing Retention Latka asks about retention and churn drivers. Levitin educates the host on the divergence between 3% churn for business users and 10% for casual sellers.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 77.1% · guest 22.9%0:00 · Nathan 77.1% · guest 22.9%3:00 · Nathan 29.4% · guest 70.6%3:00 · Nathan 29.4% · guest 70.6%6:00 · Nathan 24.1% · guest 75.9%6:00 · Nathan 24.1% · guest 75.9%9:00 · Nathan 36.4% · guest 63.6%9:00 · Nathan 36.4% · guest 63.6%12:00 · Nathan 38.5% · guest 61.5%12:00 · Nathan 38.5% · guest 61.5%15:00 · Nathan 44.1% · guest 55.9%15:00 · Nathan 44.1% · guest 55.9%18:00 · Nathan 74.6% · guest 25.4%18:00 · Nathan 74.6% · guest 25.4%21:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%21:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 15:01 Levitin rejects dumping unbounded capital into Google Ads

Levitin firmly explains why they cannot simply pour half a million dollars into Google Ads, noting finite search demand and rising CAC constraints.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 13:35 Latka presses guest to pour money into profitable ads

Latka aggressively pushes Levitin on why ad spend is capped if the unit economics deliver an 8x return on spend.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 15:01 Levitin explains audience saturation in paid search

Levitin explains the reality of niche market saturation on eBay-specific keywords to show why paid search scaling has diminishing returns.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 10:01 Latka computes ARPU growth in real time

Latka demonstrates sharp domain financial numeracy by dividing $80k MRR across 3,500 customers to prove ARPU climbed by $8.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Crazy Lister Overview and Rapid ARR Growth 6211 Latka immediately contextualizes the business metrics from their prior conversation and does quick mental math on MRR tripling and run rates. The dynamic is collaborative and welcoming.
Scaling Paid Acquisition and Google AdWords Strategy 5412 Latka drills into customer acquisition unit economics, calculating LTV directly from Levitin's 1:8 ratio. Levitin details channel experiments and keyword specifics.
Fundraising Strategy, Cash Flow, and Market Expansion 6424 Latka challenges Levitin on why he would raise capital if the company is already cash flow positive with a 10-person team. Levitin explains the strategic goal of expanding beyond eBay.
Optimizing Pricing Tiers and Increasing Customer ARPU 7412 Latka divides total MRR by customer count to determine an increase in ARPU from $15 to $23. Levitin elaborates on tier segmentation and feature gating.
Team Pillars, Paid Marketing Specialist, and Ad Budget 7526 Latka aggressively asks why they aren't dumping massive capital into paid acquisition given the ROI, briefly mishearing the monthly spend before Levitin clarifies keyword volume limitations.
Revenue Trajectory, Churn Metrics, and Listing Retention 6412 Latka asks about retention and churn drivers. Levitin educates the host on the divergence between 3% churn for business users and 10% for casual sellers.

Statements from this episode (15)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Crazy Lister passes $1M ARR and $80K MRR
“So we have recently hit one million in ARR. So we are exceeding 80,000 in MRR.”
Victor Levitin Jun 17, 2017 ▶ 2:10
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Crazy Lister reaches 3,500 paying customers
“So we've just passed at 3.5 thousand customers paying customers.”
Victor Levitin Jun 17, 2017 ▶ 2:37
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Crazy Lister achieves a 1:8 CAC to LTV ratio
“And we've managed to get to this fantastic number where we get our CAC to LTV ratio is one to eight.”
Victor Levitin Jun 17, 2017 ▶ 3:46
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Crazy Lister pays $80 in customer acquisition cost
“Oh, sure, a new customer, crazy list, it costs us 80 bucks.”
Victor Levitin Jun 17, 2017 ▶ 4:08
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Levitin says Crazy Lister completely failed at Facebook paid acquisition
“We could not succeed with anything on Facebook, no matter how focused were we in our targeting.”
Victor Levitin Jun 17, 2017 ▶ 4:57
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Crazy Lister is growing revenue at 15% month-over-month
“With our current growth rate, which is about 15% month over month.”
Victor Levitin Jun 17, 2017 ▶ 6:28
Opinion
Levitin argues raising a large VC round forces non-organic growth
“Raising a VC, a big VC round will not be healthy for us. It will put some pressure on the company, which will kind of push us into growing in a non-organical way, because we've built this very delicate balance between the team members and how we grow.”
Victor Levitin Jun 17, 2017 ▶ 6:45
Disclosure
Crazy Lister will prove non-eBay traction before raising small round
“So what we decided to do is to first prove traction beyond eBay, and then raise raise not that big of a round from smaller investors to sustain this growth.”
Victor Levitin Jun 17, 2017 ▶ 7:15
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Crazy Lister achieved positive cash flow in March 2017
“Yes, we've just hit cash flow positive actually last month in March.”
Victor Levitin Jun 17, 2017 ▶ 7:53
Insight
Levitin says cohort analysis shows highest-paying customers retain best
“And we understood, I mean, by studying the churn cohorts, we understood that the best customers by far are the highest paying customers.”
Victor Levitin Jun 17, 2017 ▶ 8:55
Disclosure
Agencies failed, but an in-house expert cracked paid acquisition ROI
“Until like six months ago, I was under the impression that it is not possible to have a positive ROI on on paid acquisition. Cause I've never seen it in, this is my first, second company and I've never seen it work. And we we've tried external agencies. We've …”
Victor Levitin Jun 17, 2017 ▶ 12:56
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Crazy Lister scaled monthly paid acquisition spend to $15,000
“Actually, when we began, our budget for this was 5000 a month. And over the months when we became more and more confident about this job and the data brought in, So we raised it to seven, then to 10, and now it's 15.”
Victor Levitin Jun 17, 2017 ▶ 14:00
Insight
Scaling ad spend within the eBay seller niche will degrade CAC
“We are laser focused on making the lights of eBay seller much easier, but you know, there's an X amount of eBay sellers out there. So yeah, Even if you want to pour in more money, we will lose the focus in terms of conversion. I mean, our CAC will go up. So we…”
Victor Levitin Jun 17, 2017 ▶ 15:10
Disclosure
Crazy Lister sees 3% churn on premium plans versus 10% on basic
“So the chore for the forty-fivers is about three percent, and the chore for the private sellers, those that pay us nine dollars a month, is around 10% a month.”
Victor Levitin Jun 17, 2017 ▶ 17:10
Insight
Levitin tells founders to build SaaS because other models do not compound
“12 years ago, start with SaaS. Everything else does not compound.”
Victor Levitin Jun 17, 2017 ▶ 19:52
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 2,600 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.

Try the podcast clipper Learn more