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Jul 24, 2017 · 21m · top-founders

730: How Two JP Morgan Men Sell $600k+ In Baby Clothes

Nathan Latka · 9m spoken Akin Onal · 7m spoken Cam Miller · 2m spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews Mori co-founders Akin Onal and Cam Miller, examining how the former JP Morgan investment bankers scaled their baby lifestyle brand to a $2 million run rate through high repeat purchases, smart upselling, and direct-to-consumer bundling.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 47.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.9 Guest teaching 3.1 Guest disagreement 1.3 Nathan pushing back 3.9
05100:0010:0020:001:05–3:09 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Guest Introductions and Background Nathan introduces the founders and humorously questions leaving JP Morgan investment banking for a baby clothing company. Akin explains how the analytical background and subscription work at the bank translate directly to their direct-to-consumer brand.3:10–5:44 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Customer Lifecycle and High Repeat Purchase Dynamics Nathan digs into their high repeat purchase numbers and questions whether it is driven by natural baby growth cycles or genuine brand addiction. Akin breaks down the difference between size-up apparel purchases and cross-category essential add-ons.5:44–8:28 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Marketing Automation and Upselling Strategy Cam outlines how average cart value doubled using Klaviyo automated recommendation flows. Nathan inquires whether recommendation pairing is automated by machine learning or manually configured.8:28–12:40 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Revenue Trajectory and Evolving the Subscription Model Nathan questions how they manage operational complexity across product sales and subscription mechanics. Akin educates Nathan on why their initial subscription failed, explaining that up to 75% of purchases are gifts rather than mother recurring needs.12:40–14:45 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Revenue Composition and Product Bundling Nathan presses repeatedly to clarify the difference between true subscription recurring revenue and simple repeat buyers returning to the website. Akin explains that their old subscription model has been phased out in favor of repeat purchases and bundles.14:45–16:55 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Customer Acquisition, Retargeting, and Organic Growth Cam shares their monthly paid acquisition figures and retargeting tools, while Akin explains how revenue growth outpaces ad spend growth through organic referrals and brand expansion beyond age three.16:55–19:43 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Funding Announcement and Company Valuation Nathan announces their new two million dollar funding round and tries to elicit their pre-money valuation and multiple calculation. Akin politely declines disclosing the exact valuation while discussing valuation methodologies for consumer brands.19:43–20:56 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 The Famous Five Questions Nathan runs through his rapid-fire Famous Five questions covering favorite books, tools, sleep habits, and advice to their younger selves.1:05–3:09 · Guest teaching 2/10 Guest Introductions and Background Nathan introduces the founders and humorously questions leaving JP Morgan investment banking for a baby clothing company. Akin explains how the analytical background and subscription work at the bank translate directly to their direct-to-consumer brand.3:10–5:44 · Guest teaching 3/10 Customer Lifecycle and High Repeat Purchase Dynamics Nathan digs into their high repeat purchase numbers and questions whether it is driven by natural baby growth cycles or genuine brand addiction. Akin breaks down the difference between size-up apparel purchases and cross-category essential add-ons.5:44–8:28 · Guest teaching 3/10 Marketing Automation and Upselling Strategy Cam outlines how average cart value doubled using Klaviyo automated recommendation flows. Nathan inquires whether recommendation pairing is automated by machine learning or manually configured.8:28–12:40 · Guest teaching 5/10 Revenue Trajectory and Evolving the Subscription Model Nathan questions how they manage operational complexity across product sales and subscription mechanics. Akin educates Nathan on why their initial subscription failed, explaining that up to 75% of purchases are gifts rather than mother recurring needs.12:40–14:45 · Guest teaching 4/10 Revenue Composition and Product Bundling Nathan presses repeatedly to clarify the difference between true subscription recurring revenue and simple repeat buyers returning to the website. Akin explains that their old subscription model has been phased out in favor of repeat purchases and bundles.14:45–16:55 · Guest teaching 3/10 Customer Acquisition, Retargeting, and Organic Growth Cam shares their monthly paid acquisition figures and retargeting tools, while Akin explains how revenue growth outpaces ad spend growth through organic referrals and brand expansion beyond age three.16:55–19:43 · Guest teaching 4/10 Funding Announcement and Company Valuation Nathan announces their new two million dollar funding round and tries to elicit their pre-money valuation and multiple calculation. Akin politely declines disclosing the exact valuation while discussing valuation methodologies for consumer brands.19:43–20:56 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Questions Nathan runs through his rapid-fire Famous Five questions covering favorite books, tools, sleep habits, and advice to their younger selves.1:05–3:09 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Guest Introductions and Background Nathan introduces the founders and humorously questions leaving JP Morgan investment banking for a baby clothing company. Akin explains how the analytical background and subscription work at the bank translate directly to their direct-to-consumer brand.3:10–5:44 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Customer Lifecycle and High Repeat Purchase Dynamics Nathan digs into their high repeat purchase numbers and questions whether it is driven by natural baby growth cycles or genuine brand addiction. Akin breaks down the difference between size-up apparel purchases and cross-category essential add-ons.5:44–8:28 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Marketing Automation and Upselling Strategy Cam outlines how average cart value doubled using Klaviyo automated recommendation flows. Nathan inquires whether recommendation pairing is automated by machine learning or manually configured.8:28–12:40 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Revenue Trajectory and Evolving the Subscription Model Nathan questions how they manage operational complexity across product sales and subscription mechanics. Akin educates Nathan on why their initial subscription failed, explaining that up to 75% of purchases are gifts rather than mother recurring needs.12:40–14:45 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Revenue Composition and Product Bundling Nathan presses repeatedly to clarify the difference between true subscription recurring revenue and simple repeat buyers returning to the website. Akin explains that their old subscription model has been phased out in favor of repeat purchases and bundles.14:45–16:55 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Customer Acquisition, Retargeting, and Organic Growth Cam shares their monthly paid acquisition figures and retargeting tools, while Akin explains how revenue growth outpaces ad spend growth through organic referrals and brand expansion beyond age three.16:55–19:43 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Funding Announcement and Company Valuation Nathan announces their new two million dollar funding round and tries to elicit their pre-money valuation and multiple calculation. Akin politely declines disclosing the exact valuation while discussing valuation methodologies for consumer brands.19:43–20:56 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Questions Nathan runs through his rapid-fire Famous Five questions covering favorite books, tools, sleep habits, and advice to their younger selves.1:05–3:09 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Guest Introductions and Background Nathan introduces the founders and humorously questions leaving JP Morgan investment banking for a baby clothing company. Akin explains how the analytical background and subscription work at the bank translate directly to their direct-to-consumer brand.3:10–5:44 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Customer Lifecycle and High Repeat Purchase Dynamics Nathan digs into their high repeat purchase numbers and questions whether it is driven by natural baby growth cycles or genuine brand addiction. Akin breaks down the difference between size-up apparel purchases and cross-category essential add-ons.5:44–8:28 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Marketing Automation and Upselling Strategy Cam outlines how average cart value doubled using Klaviyo automated recommendation flows. Nathan inquires whether recommendation pairing is automated by machine learning or manually configured.8:28–12:40 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Revenue Trajectory and Evolving the Subscription Model Nathan questions how they manage operational complexity across product sales and subscription mechanics. Akin educates Nathan on why their initial subscription failed, explaining that up to 75% of purchases are gifts rather than mother recurring needs.12:40–14:45 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Revenue Composition and Product Bundling Nathan presses repeatedly to clarify the difference between true subscription recurring revenue and simple repeat buyers returning to the website. Akin explains that their old subscription model has been phased out in favor of repeat purchases and bundles.14:45–16:55 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Customer Acquisition, Retargeting, and Organic Growth Cam shares their monthly paid acquisition figures and retargeting tools, while Akin explains how revenue growth outpaces ad spend growth through organic referrals and brand expansion beyond age three.16:55–19:43 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Funding Announcement and Company Valuation Nathan announces their new two million dollar funding round and tries to elicit their pre-money valuation and multiple calculation. Akin politely declines disclosing the exact valuation while discussing valuation methodologies for consumer brands.19:43–20:56 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Questions Nathan runs through his rapid-fire Famous Five questions covering favorite books, tools, sleep habits, and advice to their younger selves.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 72.3% · guest 27.7%0:00 · Nathan 72.3% · guest 27.7%3:00 · Nathan 34.9% · guest 65.1%3:00 · Nathan 34.9% · guest 65.1%6:00 · Nathan 26.9% · guest 73.1%6:00 · Nathan 26.9% · guest 73.1%9:00 · Nathan 39.2% · guest 60.8%9:00 · Nathan 39.2% · guest 60.8%12:00 · Nathan 44.8% · guest 55.2%12:00 · Nathan 44.8% · guest 55.2%15:00 · Nathan 29.4% · guest 70.6%15:00 · Nathan 29.4% · guest 70.6%18:00 · Nathan 69% · guest 31%18:00 · Nathan 69% · guest 31%21:00 · Nathan 98% · guest 2%21:00 · Nathan 98% · guest 2%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 18:29 Refusal to disclose pre-money valuation

Akin directly shuts down Nathan's probe into their company's exact valuation figures following their fresh two million dollar round.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 13:08 Pressing on repeat versus subscription revenue

Nathan refuses to let ambiguous revenue categories slide, demanding clarity on whether repeat transactions are contractual subscriptions or spontaneous e-commerce checkouts.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:12 Educating on gifting dynamics in baby apparel

Akin explains that assumptions around automated baby sizing subscriptions fail because over half of baby products are purchased by third-party gift givers rather than mothers.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 17:49 Nathan deducing financial run rates and trajectories

Nathan demonstrates command of financial math by synthesizing monthly revenue run rates and past annual totals to calculate their 2017 trajectory.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Guest Introductions and Background 4213 Nathan introduces the founders and humorously questions leaving JP Morgan investment banking for a baby clothing company. Akin explains how the analytical background and subscription work at the bank translate directly to their direct-to-consumer brand.
Customer Lifecycle and High Repeat Purchase Dynamics 5314 Nathan digs into their high repeat purchase numbers and questions whether it is driven by natural baby growth cycles or genuine brand addiction. Akin breaks down the difference between size-up apparel purchases and cross-category essential add-ons.
Marketing Automation and Upselling Strategy 5313 Cam outlines how average cart value doubled using Klaviyo automated recommendation flows. Nathan inquires whether recommendation pairing is automated by machine learning or manually configured.
Revenue Trajectory and Evolving the Subscription Model 6525 Nathan questions how they manage operational complexity across product sales and subscription mechanics. Akin educates Nathan on why their initial subscription failed, explaining that up to 75% of purchases are gifts rather than mother recurring needs.
Revenue Composition and Product Bundling 6426 Nathan presses repeatedly to clarify the difference between true subscription recurring revenue and simple repeat buyers returning to the website. Akin explains that their old subscription model has been phased out in favor of repeat purchases and bundles.
Customer Acquisition, Retargeting, and Organic Growth 5313 Cam shares their monthly paid acquisition figures and retargeting tools, while Akin explains how revenue growth outpaces ad spend growth through organic referrals and brand expansion beyond age three.
Funding Announcement and Company Valuation 6426 Nathan announces their new two million dollar funding round and tries to elicit their pre-money valuation and multiple calculation. Akin politely declines disclosing the exact valuation while discussing valuation methodologies for consumer brands.
The Famous Five Questions 2101 Nathan runs through his rapid-fire Famous Five questions covering favorite books, tools, sleep habits, and advice to their younger selves.

Statements from this episode (16)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Mori has over 10,000 customers across more than 50 countries
“We have about now, I think over 10,000 customers over 50 countries globally.”
Akin Onal Jul 24, 2017 ▶ 2:32
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Mori acquires approximately 1,000 new customers per month
“Yeah, acquiring about a thousand customers per month.”
Cam Miller Jul 24, 2017 ▶ 2:37
Disclosure
Mori generates most sales from direct e-commerce, not subscriptions
“Our direct, the non-substitution model regular e-commerce is what we sell on the most part.”
Akin Onal Jul 24, 2017 ▶ 2:57
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Add-on items account for roughly 70% of Mori sales
“About 70% of the sales are coming from the other add-on items like the towels or the sleeping bags or the muzzens that we have.”
Akin Onal Jul 24, 2017 ▶ 3:51
Assertion Not checkable as stated
The average Mori customer has purchased over four times
“Our average mother, so far, have already purchased more than four times on our website.”
Akin Onal Jul 24, 2017 ▶ 4:08
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Mori's average order value has nearly doubled to about $100
“No, it's about a hundred dollars now. I think that that's almost doubled actually since we spoke to you last time.”
Cam Miller Jul 24, 2017 ▶ 5:45
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Mori closed 2016 with $500,000 in top-line revenue
“Basically, 16 is our first real year, and we close, as Cam mentioned, at half a million.”
Akin Onal Jul 24, 2017 ▶ 8:47
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Mori targets $4 million 2017 revenue on a $2 million run rate
“Currently, we are on track for a run rate of two million, but the goal for 17 is about four.”
Akin Onal Jul 24, 2017 ▶ 8:53
Assertion Contradicted
Gifting drives 50% to 75% of the baby apparel market
“About 50 to 75% of the market is through gifting, and there is no way for Maureen to know our, what gifts our mother received.”
Akin Onal Jul 24, 2017 ▶ 10:49
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Repeat customers drive 40% of Mori's revenue and 50% of transactions
“40% of that revenues repeat customers. About 50% of the transactions are repeat.”
Akin Onal Jul 24, 2017 ▶ 13:00
Disclosure
Mori phased out its original subscription model over the past six months
“Our current subscription model is almost phased out. That's why we have been phasing it out over the last, let's say, six months.”
Akin Onal Jul 24, 2017 ▶ 13:33
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Mori customers with over four purchases buy at least one gift
“Like, our average mother who made over four purchases, one of them was a gift, which tells us that the mothers don't only buy for their own baby, so the lifetime is actually longer than the three years that currently that we are covering.”
Akin Onal Jul 24, 2017 ▶ 15:07
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Mori spends roughly $50,000 monthly on paid social media ads
“I think last month it was around 50,000 dollars, I would say. A large portion of that is on social media advertising. Facebook and Instagram are where we're particularly strong”
Cam Miller Jul 24, 2017 ▶ 15:56
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Mori's revenue grows 20-30% monthly against just 5% ad spend growth
“When you look at our growth rates on revenues, which is about 20 to 30% depending on the month, the growth on ad spend is just about five percent.”
Akin Onal Jul 24, 2017 ▶ 16:23
Disclosure
Mori recently closed a $2 million financing round
“We just closed it to a million round.”
Akin Onal Jul 24, 2017 ▶ 16:58
Insight
Early-stage startups should be valued on growth, not revenue multiples
“But I think the way to value our level of companies is not necessarily through a multiple of revenue. It is more on the growth rate for any startup.”
Akin Onal Jul 24, 2017 ▶ 18:07
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