Jul 30, 2017 · 19m · top-founders

736: How Mobile Analytics Company Went $0 to $4 Million in 12 Months

Sunil Thomas · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 8m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews CleverTap co-founder and CEO Sunil Thomas about scaling their unified mobile analytics and user engagement platform from zero to $400,000 in monthly recurring revenue in just 12 months. Thomas reveals the company's rare co-investment from Accel and Sequoia, its 85% gross margin architecture, and its roadmap to achieving a $10 million ARR run rate.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 45.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.5 Guest teaching 3.2 Guest disagreement 2.0 Nathan pushing back 4.0
05100:0010:003:06–6:28 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Pricing Architecture, ARPU, and Enterprise Tiers Latka immediately checks the guest for giving top-tier contract values instead of the true blended average ARPU across all clients. Sunil clarifies the broad average is $2,500-$3,000 per month and explains the joint Accel and Sequoia backing.6:28–8:48 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Mobile App Market Saturation and Event Calculations Latka challenges the total addressable market by arguing consumers only use four apps daily, limiting event volume. Sunil reframes the premise around enterprise publisher demand and thousands of new app launches daily, while Latka pushes back on app store ghost apps.8:48–11:14 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Freemium Strategy, Conversion Rates, and $400K MRR Latka validates the revenue run rate by calculating 200 customers at a $2,000 average to hit $400K MRR. Sunil educates Latka on the mobile SaaS ecosystem by breaking it into intelligence, attribution, and analytics/engagement.11:14–14:20 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Zero Churn Rate and 12-Month Commercialization Ramp When Sunil claims CAC is under $1,000 due to not buying ads, Latka firmly intervenes to define fully weighted CAC including sales payroll and commissions. Sunil concedes he does not have that metric tracked yet.14:21–16:58 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 85% Gross Margins and Proprietary Data Infrastructure Sunil explains how building proprietary data infrastructure instead of relying on AWS Redshift allowed CleverTap to maintain 85% gross margins. Latka tracks the company's ARR trajectory from $1.5M in 2016 toward a $10M target.16:58–19:41 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Latka guides Sunil through the Famous Five standard questions, with friendly banter around reading habits, CEO inspirations, and twin teenagers, followed by the host outro recap.3:06–6:28 · Guest teaching 3/10 Pricing Architecture, ARPU, and Enterprise Tiers Latka immediately checks the guest for giving top-tier contract values instead of the true blended average ARPU across all clients. Sunil clarifies the broad average is $2,500-$3,000 per month and explains the joint Accel and Sequoia backing.6:28–8:48 · Guest teaching 4/10 Mobile App Market Saturation and Event Calculations Latka challenges the total addressable market by arguing consumers only use four apps daily, limiting event volume. Sunil reframes the premise around enterprise publisher demand and thousands of new app launches daily, while Latka pushes back on app store ghost apps.8:48–11:14 · Guest teaching 5/10 Freemium Strategy, Conversion Rates, and $400K MRR Latka validates the revenue run rate by calculating 200 customers at a $2,000 average to hit $400K MRR. Sunil educates Latka on the mobile SaaS ecosystem by breaking it into intelligence, attribution, and analytics/engagement.11:14–14:20 · Guest teaching 2/10 Zero Churn Rate and 12-Month Commercialization Ramp When Sunil claims CAC is under $1,000 due to not buying ads, Latka firmly intervenes to define fully weighted CAC including sales payroll and commissions. Sunil concedes he does not have that metric tracked yet.14:21–16:58 · Guest teaching 4/10 85% Gross Margins and Proprietary Data Infrastructure Sunil explains how building proprietary data infrastructure instead of relying on AWS Redshift allowed CleverTap to maintain 85% gross margins. Latka tracks the company's ARR trajectory from $1.5M in 2016 toward a $10M target.16:58–19:41 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Latka guides Sunil through the Famous Five standard questions, with friendly banter around reading habits, CEO inspirations, and twin teenagers, followed by the host outro recap.3:06–6:28 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Pricing Architecture, ARPU, and Enterprise Tiers Latka immediately checks the guest for giving top-tier contract values instead of the true blended average ARPU across all clients. Sunil clarifies the broad average is $2,500-$3,000 per month and explains the joint Accel and Sequoia backing.6:28–8:48 · Guest disagreement 6/10 Mobile App Market Saturation and Event Calculations Latka challenges the total addressable market by arguing consumers only use four apps daily, limiting event volume. Sunil reframes the premise around enterprise publisher demand and thousands of new app launches daily, while Latka pushes back on app store ghost apps.8:48–11:14 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Freemium Strategy, Conversion Rates, and $400K MRR Latka validates the revenue run rate by calculating 200 customers at a $2,000 average to hit $400K MRR. Sunil educates Latka on the mobile SaaS ecosystem by breaking it into intelligence, attribution, and analytics/engagement.11:14–14:20 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Zero Churn Rate and 12-Month Commercialization Ramp When Sunil claims CAC is under $1,000 due to not buying ads, Latka firmly intervenes to define fully weighted CAC including sales payroll and commissions. Sunil concedes he does not have that metric tracked yet.14:21–16:58 · Guest disagreement 1/10 85% Gross Margins and Proprietary Data Infrastructure Sunil explains how building proprietary data infrastructure instead of relying on AWS Redshift allowed CleverTap to maintain 85% gross margins. Latka tracks the company's ARR trajectory from $1.5M in 2016 toward a $10M target.16:58–19:41 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Latka guides Sunil through the Famous Five standard questions, with friendly banter around reading habits, CEO inspirations, and twin teenagers, followed by the host outro recap.3:06–6:28 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Pricing Architecture, ARPU, and Enterprise Tiers Latka immediately checks the guest for giving top-tier contract values instead of the true blended average ARPU across all clients. Sunil clarifies the broad average is $2,500-$3,000 per month and explains the joint Accel and Sequoia backing.6:28–8:48 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Mobile App Market Saturation and Event Calculations Latka challenges the total addressable market by arguing consumers only use four apps daily, limiting event volume. Sunil reframes the premise around enterprise publisher demand and thousands of new app launches daily, while Latka pushes back on app store ghost apps.8:48–11:14 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Freemium Strategy, Conversion Rates, and $400K MRR Latka validates the revenue run rate by calculating 200 customers at a $2,000 average to hit $400K MRR. Sunil educates Latka on the mobile SaaS ecosystem by breaking it into intelligence, attribution, and analytics/engagement.11:14–14:20 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Zero Churn Rate and 12-Month Commercialization Ramp When Sunil claims CAC is under $1,000 due to not buying ads, Latka firmly intervenes to define fully weighted CAC including sales payroll and commissions. Sunil concedes he does not have that metric tracked yet.14:21–16:58 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 85% Gross Margins and Proprietary Data Infrastructure Sunil explains how building proprietary data infrastructure instead of relying on AWS Redshift allowed CleverTap to maintain 85% gross margins. Latka tracks the company's ARR trajectory from $1.5M in 2016 toward a $10M target.16:58–19:41 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Latka guides Sunil through the Famous Five standard questions, with friendly banter around reading habits, CEO inspirations, and twin teenagers, followed by the host outro recap.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 68.8% · guest 31.2%0:00 · Nathan 68.8% · guest 31.2%3:00 · Nathan 27.8% · guest 72.2%3:00 · Nathan 27.8% · guest 72.2%6:00 · Nathan 37.5% · guest 62.5%6:00 · Nathan 37.5% · guest 62.5%9:00 · Nathan 25% · guest 75%9:00 · Nathan 25% · guest 75%12:00 · Nathan 32.3% · guest 67.7%12:00 · Nathan 32.3% · guest 67.7%15:00 · Nathan 61.1% · guest 38.9%15:00 · Nathan 61.1% · guest 38.9%18:00 · Nathan 83% · guest 17%18:00 · Nathan 83% · guest 17%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 7:41 Guest defends monetization potential of long-tail apps

Sunil directly dismisses Latka's skeptical claim about dead apps by emphasizing he will gladly monetize thousands of apps at $1,000 monthly.

Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 13:51 Host demands fully weighted CAC calculation

Latka halts Sunil's claim of near-zero CAC from organic traffic, explicitly insisting on accounting for sales team salaries and overhead.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:01 Ecosystem categorization of mobile marketing tools

Sunil educates the host by systematically distinguishing app intelligence tools, attribution trackers, and hybrid analytics-engagement platforms.

Nathan holds their own ▶ 3:06 Host corrects skewed ACV figure

Latka immediately catches Sunil offering a selective top-tier enterprise cohort ACV and forces him to reveal the genuine overall customer average.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Pricing Architecture, ARPU, and Enterprise Tiers 5315 Latka immediately checks the guest for giving top-tier contract values instead of the true blended average ARPU across all clients. Sunil clarifies the broad average is $2,500-$3,000 per month and explains the joint Accel and Sequoia backing.
Mobile App Market Saturation and Event Calculations 5467 Latka challenges the total addressable market by arguing consumers only use four apps daily, limiting event volume. Sunil reframes the premise around enterprise publisher demand and thousands of new app launches daily, while Latka pushes back on app store ghost apps.
Freemium Strategy, Conversion Rates, and $400K MRR 6512 Latka validates the revenue run rate by calculating 200 customers at a $2,000 average to hit $400K MRR. Sunil educates Latka on the mobile SaaS ecosystem by breaking it into intelligence, attribution, and analytics/engagement.
Zero Churn Rate and 12-Month Commercialization Ramp 7227 When Sunil claims CAC is under $1,000 due to not buying ads, Latka firmly intervenes to define fully weighted CAC including sales payroll and commissions. Sunil concedes he does not have that metric tracked yet.
85% Gross Margins and Proprietary Data Infrastructure 6412 Sunil explains how building proprietary data infrastructure instead of relying on AWS Redshift allowed CleverTap to maintain 85% gross margins. Latka tracks the company's ARR trajectory from $1.5M in 2016 toward a $10M target.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 4111 Latka guides Sunil through the Famous Five standard questions, with friendly banter around reading habits, CEO inspirations, and twin teenagers, followed by the host outro recap.

Statements from this episode (13)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
CleverTap: Top 15-20 accounts average over $150k in ACV
“So our average customer or average contract value for the top 15, 20 accounts is north of 150,000 dollars.”
Sunil Thomas Jul 30, 2017 ▶ 3:07
Assertion Not checkable as stated
CleverTap: Blended customer average is $2,500 to $3,000 per month
“About 2500 to 3000 dollars a month.”
Sunil Thomas Jul 30, 2017 ▶ 3:20
Assertion Partly supported
Accel and Sequoia have co-invested in only 8 to 12 companies worldwide
“No, no, they, there are a very few I mean, there are like I don't know, eight or 10 or 12 companies in the world that they have both invested in Dropbox being one of them, Clevertabs being another one.”
Sunil Thomas Jul 30, 2017 ▶ 4:51
Insight
Thomas: Monthly active app users average 15 to 20 events monthly
“Typically a monthly active user does, you know, 15 to 20 things 15 to 20 events a month in your app.”
Sunil Thomas Jul 30, 2017 ▶ 8:16
Disclosure
CleverTap serves around 200 paying customers and 2,500 active apps
“So we have about 200 paying customers. We have about 2000 apps that are sending us live data. 2500 apps that are sending a free plan.”
Sunil Thomas Jul 30, 2017 ▶ 8:53
Disclosure
CleverTap achieves over 30% free-to-paid conversion within 12 months
“It's north of 30%, and it's actually, people get addicted to it once they see it, right, and they just want to do more.”
Sunil Thomas Jul 30, 2017 ▶ 9:31
Disclosure
CleverTap generates at least $400,000 in monthly recurring revenue
“Your math is pretty good.”
Sunil Thomas Jul 30, 2017 ▶ 9:47
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Thomas: CleverTap Has Zero Churn Among $1k+ Monthly Customers
“We haven't had a customer more than, I mean, paying us anything north of like, I mean, a thousand dollars or more is zero.”
Sunil Thomas Jul 30, 2017 ▶ 11:19
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Thomas: CleverTap CAC Is Well Below $1,000 Without Ad Spend
“No, I mean right now it's well below a thousand because we're not spending like ad money.”
Sunil Thomas Jul 30, 2017 ▶ 13:46
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Thomas: CleverTap maintains 85%+ gross margins on COGS
“We are not of like an 85% margin on just COGS, right? These don't include sales commissions and so on.”
Sunil Thomas Jul 30, 2017 ▶ 14:35
Opinion
Thomas: Off-the-shelf data tools like Redshift become much more expensive
“We ended up resisting the urge to use something like Redshift or, you know, tools that people use, and those tend to get really more expensive.”
Sunil Thomas Jul 30, 2017 ▶ 14:51
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Thomas: CleverTap adds over $1M in ARR every quarter
“We had just launched pricing, so we are, you know, roughly adding a million or a little more every quarter. Since we, of annual, of ARR.”
Sunil Thomas Jul 30, 2017 ▶ 15:38
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Thomas: CleverTap will conservatively reach $10 million ARR by end of 2017
“I think we'll conservatively hit 10. That's my board number, so don't, you know, I want to go past that.”
Sunil Thomas Jul 30, 2017 ▶ 16:08
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