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Aug 17, 2017 · 26m · top-founders

754: They've Passed $15M in Revenue Using Breakfast Meetups for Growth

Louis Jonckheere · 13m spoken Nathan Latka · 10m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top Podcast, host Nathan Latka interviews Showpad co-founder and Chief Product Officer Louis Jonckheere on how the sales enablement platform surpassed 20 million dollars in ARR with negative 30% net churn. Jonckheere shares insights on enterprise land-and-expand sales, B2B SaaS unit economics, and transitioning from a bootstrapped agency into a venture-backed market leader.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 43.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.8 Guest teaching 3.5 Guest disagreement 1.4 Nathan pushing back 3.1
05100:0010:0020:001:22–5:47 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Introducing Louis Jonckheere and Product Alignment Nathan asks for fundamental clarification on Showpad's product offering when he admits he does not understand the content flow. Louis educates him on how enterprise marketing departments fail to get content used by sales reps.5:47–8:20 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Enterprise Deal Sizes, Upsells, and Tech Stack Nathan probes into enterprise land-and-expand dynamics and the operational difficulty of cohort billing. Louis explains the 140% net expansion and the CRM tech stack powering it.8:20–11:23 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Revenue Milestones, Team Expansion, and Capital Raised Nathan attempts to multiply 1,000 customers by a $50k ACV, but Louis corrects the calculation by noting their legacy lower-ACV SMB customer base. Nathan also playfully teases Louis about bootstrapping vs raising capital.11:23–13:31 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Venture Capital Philosophy and Agency Origins Nathan demonstrates sharp venture finance knowledge by challenging Louis on liquidation preferences and whether raising $61M limits realistic exit outcomes. Nathan also accurately benchmarks agency EBITDA multiples.13:32–18:24 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 SaaS Unit Economics: Churn, CAC, and LTV Nathan and Louis conduct a detailed drill-down into SaaS unit economics. When Louis mentions gross churn increasing from 6% to 8%, Nathan immediately questions the mechanism, prompting Louis to explain aging cohort risks.18:24–21:07 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Product Expansion and Unconventional Growth Tactics Nathan identifies Showpad's acquisition product line and pricing tier, showing product knowledge. Louis shares unconventional offline growth tactics including breakfast roundtables and a European party bus tour.21:07–24:18 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Revenue Recognition and Year-End Financial Projections Nathan presses Louis on translating his ARR run-rate target to GAAP recognized revenue. Louis clarifies why heavy Q4 enterprise closing delays recognized revenue until the following year.24:18–26:38 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion Nathan moves through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions and summarizes Showpad's headline metrics in a polished closing wrap-up.1:22–5:47 · Guest teaching 5/10 Introducing Louis Jonckheere and Product Alignment Nathan asks for fundamental clarification on Showpad's product offering when he admits he does not understand the content flow. Louis educates him on how enterprise marketing departments fail to get content used by sales reps.5:47–8:20 · Guest teaching 3/10 Enterprise Deal Sizes, Upsells, and Tech Stack Nathan probes into enterprise land-and-expand dynamics and the operational difficulty of cohort billing. Louis explains the 140% net expansion and the CRM tech stack powering it.8:20–11:23 · Guest teaching 5/10 Revenue Milestones, Team Expansion, and Capital Raised Nathan attempts to multiply 1,000 customers by a $50k ACV, but Louis corrects the calculation by noting their legacy lower-ACV SMB customer base. Nathan also playfully teases Louis about bootstrapping vs raising capital.11:23–13:31 · Guest teaching 2/10 Venture Capital Philosophy and Agency Origins Nathan demonstrates sharp venture finance knowledge by challenging Louis on liquidation preferences and whether raising $61M limits realistic exit outcomes. Nathan also accurately benchmarks agency EBITDA multiples.13:32–18:24 · Guest teaching 4/10 SaaS Unit Economics: Churn, CAC, and LTV Nathan and Louis conduct a detailed drill-down into SaaS unit economics. When Louis mentions gross churn increasing from 6% to 8%, Nathan immediately questions the mechanism, prompting Louis to explain aging cohort risks.18:24–21:07 · Guest teaching 4/10 Product Expansion and Unconventional Growth Tactics Nathan identifies Showpad's acquisition product line and pricing tier, showing product knowledge. Louis shares unconventional offline growth tactics including breakfast roundtables and a European party bus tour.21:07–24:18 · Guest teaching 4/10 Revenue Recognition and Year-End Financial Projections Nathan presses Louis on translating his ARR run-rate target to GAAP recognized revenue. Louis clarifies why heavy Q4 enterprise closing delays recognized revenue until the following year.24:18–26:38 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion Nathan moves through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions and summarizes Showpad's headline metrics in a polished closing wrap-up.1:22–5:47 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Louis Jonckheere and Product Alignment Nathan asks for fundamental clarification on Showpad's product offering when he admits he does not understand the content flow. Louis educates him on how enterprise marketing departments fail to get content used by sales reps.5:47–8:20 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Enterprise Deal Sizes, Upsells, and Tech Stack Nathan probes into enterprise land-and-expand dynamics and the operational difficulty of cohort billing. Louis explains the 140% net expansion and the CRM tech stack powering it.8:20–11:23 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Revenue Milestones, Team Expansion, and Capital Raised Nathan attempts to multiply 1,000 customers by a $50k ACV, but Louis corrects the calculation by noting their legacy lower-ACV SMB customer base. Nathan also playfully teases Louis about bootstrapping vs raising capital.11:23–13:31 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Venture Capital Philosophy and Agency Origins Nathan demonstrates sharp venture finance knowledge by challenging Louis on liquidation preferences and whether raising $61M limits realistic exit outcomes. Nathan also accurately benchmarks agency EBITDA multiples.13:32–18:24 · Guest disagreement 2/10 SaaS Unit Economics: Churn, CAC, and LTV Nathan and Louis conduct a detailed drill-down into SaaS unit economics. When Louis mentions gross churn increasing from 6% to 8%, Nathan immediately questions the mechanism, prompting Louis to explain aging cohort risks.18:24–21:07 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Product Expansion and Unconventional Growth Tactics Nathan identifies Showpad's acquisition product line and pricing tier, showing product knowledge. Louis shares unconventional offline growth tactics including breakfast roundtables and a European party bus tour.21:07–24:18 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Revenue Recognition and Year-End Financial Projections Nathan presses Louis on translating his ARR run-rate target to GAAP recognized revenue. Louis clarifies why heavy Q4 enterprise closing delays recognized revenue until the following year.24:18–26:38 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion Nathan moves through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions and summarizes Showpad's headline metrics in a polished closing wrap-up.1:22–5:47 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Introducing Louis Jonckheere and Product Alignment Nathan asks for fundamental clarification on Showpad's product offering when he admits he does not understand the content flow. Louis educates him on how enterprise marketing departments fail to get content used by sales reps.5:47–8:20 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Enterprise Deal Sizes, Upsells, and Tech Stack Nathan probes into enterprise land-and-expand dynamics and the operational difficulty of cohort billing. Louis explains the 140% net expansion and the CRM tech stack powering it.8:20–11:23 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Revenue Milestones, Team Expansion, and Capital Raised Nathan attempts to multiply 1,000 customers by a $50k ACV, but Louis corrects the calculation by noting their legacy lower-ACV SMB customer base. Nathan also playfully teases Louis about bootstrapping vs raising capital.11:23–13:31 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Venture Capital Philosophy and Agency Origins Nathan demonstrates sharp venture finance knowledge by challenging Louis on liquidation preferences and whether raising $61M limits realistic exit outcomes. Nathan also accurately benchmarks agency EBITDA multiples.13:32–18:24 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 SaaS Unit Economics: Churn, CAC, and LTV Nathan and Louis conduct a detailed drill-down into SaaS unit economics. When Louis mentions gross churn increasing from 6% to 8%, Nathan immediately questions the mechanism, prompting Louis to explain aging cohort risks.18:24–21:07 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Product Expansion and Unconventional Growth Tactics Nathan identifies Showpad's acquisition product line and pricing tier, showing product knowledge. Louis shares unconventional offline growth tactics including breakfast roundtables and a European party bus tour.21:07–24:18 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Revenue Recognition and Year-End Financial Projections Nathan presses Louis on translating his ARR run-rate target to GAAP recognized revenue. Louis clarifies why heavy Q4 enterprise closing delays recognized revenue until the following year.24:18–26:38 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion Nathan moves through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions and summarizes Showpad's headline metrics in a polished closing wrap-up.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 72.2% · guest 27.8%0:00 · Nathan 72.2% · guest 27.8%3:00 · Nathan 16.8% · guest 83.2%3:00 · Nathan 16.8% · guest 83.2%6:00 · Nathan 26.8% · guest 73.2%6:00 · Nathan 26.8% · guest 73.2%9:00 · Nathan 40.6% · guest 59.4%9:00 · Nathan 40.6% · guest 59.4%12:00 · Nathan 32.5% · guest 67.5%12:00 · Nathan 32.5% · guest 67.5%15:00 · Nathan 36.2% · guest 63.8%15:00 · Nathan 36.2% · guest 63.8%18:00 · Nathan 24.5% · guest 75.5%18:00 · Nathan 24.5% · guest 75.5%21:00 · Nathan 67% · guest 33%21:00 · Nathan 67% · guest 33%24:00 · Nathan 75.5% · guest 24.5%24:00 · Nathan 75.5% · guest 24.5%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 8:24 Rejecting the ARR calculation

Louis shuts down Nathan's attempt to calculate ARR by simply multiplying total customer count by enterprise ACV, highlighting their historical SMB base.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 11:25 Pushing on capital raised and trapped exit options

Nathan directly challenges Louis on whether raising $61M in Series C capital eliminates the possibility of lucrative sub-$100M acquisition exits.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 14:03 Explaining why mature cohorts face higher churn

Louis educates Nathan on enterprise cohort dynamics, explaining that as customer tenure extends past four or five years, annual churn percentage naturally ticks upward.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 13:15 Quoting agency EBITDA multiples

Nathan displays deep business model knowledge by immediately citing typical low agency valuation multiples (1 to 1.5x EBITDA) before Louis can even say it.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Louis Jonckheere and Product Alignment 4513 Nathan asks for fundamental clarification on Showpad's product offering when he admits he does not understand the content flow. Louis educates him on how enterprise marketing departments fail to get content used by sales reps.
Enterprise Deal Sizes, Upsells, and Tech Stack 6313 Nathan probes into enterprise land-and-expand dynamics and the operational difficulty of cohort billing. Louis explains the 140% net expansion and the CRM tech stack powering it.
Revenue Milestones, Team Expansion, and Capital Raised 6524 Nathan attempts to multiply 1,000 customers by a $50k ACV, but Louis corrects the calculation by noting their legacy lower-ACV SMB customer base. Nathan also playfully teases Louis about bootstrapping vs raising capital.
Venture Capital Philosophy and Agency Origins 7225 Nathan demonstrates sharp venture finance knowledge by challenging Louis on liquidation preferences and whether raising $61M limits realistic exit outcomes. Nathan also accurately benchmarks agency EBITDA multiples.
SaaS Unit Economics: Churn, CAC, and LTV 7424 Nathan and Louis conduct a detailed drill-down into SaaS unit economics. When Louis mentions gross churn increasing from 6% to 8%, Nathan immediately questions the mechanism, prompting Louis to explain aging cohort risks.
Product Expansion and Unconventional Growth Tactics 6412 Nathan identifies Showpad's acquisition product line and pricing tier, showing product knowledge. Louis shares unconventional offline growth tactics including breakfast roundtables and a European party bus tour.
Revenue Recognition and Year-End Financial Projections 5413 Nathan presses Louis on translating his ARR run-rate target to GAAP recognized revenue. Louis clarifies why heavy Q4 enterprise closing delays recognized revenue until the following year.
The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion 5111 Nathan moves through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions and summarizes Showpad's headline metrics in a polished closing wrap-up.

Statements from this episode (15)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Louis Jonckheere: 90% of corporate marketing content is ignored by sales
“And actually, 90% of what marketing creates, like, never gets used.”
Louis Jonckheere Aug 17, 2017 ▶ 4:24
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Jonckheere: Showpad's enterprise initial land deals average $50k to $60k
“If you look at enterprise and currently the average land deals are around like 50, 60 K.”
Louis Jonckheere Aug 17, 2017 ▶ 5:52
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Showpad's enterprise accounts expand by an average of 140% in year one
“Within the first 12 months, that customer grows on average with about a 140%.”
Louis Jonckheere Aug 17, 2017 ▶ 6:47
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Jonckheere: Showpad has 997 customers
“It's like 997. It's almost a thousand, but we say a thousand of course.”
Louis Jonckheere Aug 17, 2017 ▶ 8:16
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Jonckheere: Showpad surpasses $20M in ARR
“We are now a bit over twenty million in ARR.”
Louis Jonckheere Aug 17, 2017 ▶ 8:29
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Jonckheere: Showpad targets $25M-$28M in ARR by December 2017
“We want to be somewhere between, let's say like 25 and then 28.”
Louis Jonckheere Aug 17, 2017 ▶ 9:16
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Jonckheere: Showpad employs 220 people, including 30 sales reps
“The total team size is 220. We have a sales team of about 30 sales reps.”
Louis Jonckheere Aug 17, 2017 ▶ 9:47
Assertion Supported
Jonckheere: Showpad has raised $60M to $61M in total funding
“60, 61.”
Louis Jonckheere Aug 17, 2017 ▶ 11:25
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Jonckheere: Showpad's annual gross churn was just over 6%
“Gross churn. Last year was around a bit over six, six percent.”
Louis Jonckheere Aug 17, 2017 ▶ 13:54
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Showpad achieves an elite negative 35% net revenue churn rate
“Net churn, I think negative churn of about like 30, 35%, which is pretty good.”
Louis Jonckheere Aug 17, 2017 ▶ 14:41
Insight
Jonckheere: SaaS companies should generate $1 revenue per $1 spent on S&M
“The golden rule in SaaS always should be is that for every dollar you spend on, on, on sales and marketing, you should get one dollar in return in revenue.”
Louis Jonckheere Aug 17, 2017 ▶ 15:39
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Jonckheere: Showpad's CAC payback period is under 11 months
“It's within 11 months, I think.”
Louis Jonckheere Aug 17, 2017 ▶ 16:03
Disclosure
Showpad charges an extra $10 per user monthly for its Salesforce integration
“A few things we've done is, is, I mean, adding new add-ons to the product that, for example, when we delivered our Salesforce integration, that's an additional 10 dollars per user a month.”
Louis Jonckheere Aug 17, 2017 ▶ 18:46
Insight
In-person events are by far Showpad's best-performing growth channel
“The non-digital events are still by far the best performing.”
Louis Jonckheere Aug 17, 2017 ▶ 20:10
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Jonckheere: Showpad operates at 85% to 86% gross margins
“8586 something.”
Louis Jonckheere Aug 17, 2017 ▶ 21:11
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