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Dec 19, 2017 · 21m · top-founders

878 SaaS: Bootstrapped and $10m+ in ARR Founder Rides Mechanical Bull To Lock Down Demos

Robin Stevens · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 9m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs, host Nathan Latka interviews Robin Stevens, co-founder of Future, exploring how the company bootstrapped marketing automation software for enterprise professional service firms to nearly $10 million in ARR with continuous profitability and near-zero customer churn.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 49.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.6 Guest teaching 1.8 Guest disagreement 1.2 Nathan pushing back 2.6
05100:0010:0020:002:55–6:26 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Future's Enterprise Niche and $10 Million ARR Trajectory Latka quickly converts GBP to USD and models monthly run rates into ARR projections. Robin explains his unique two-way marketing automation product tailored specifically for professional enterprise firms.6:26–12:43 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Bootstrapped Founding Story, Equity Split, and Executive Compensation Latka actively catches and corrects Robin's mental math on customer acquisition cost ($300k spent for 30 clients equals $10k CAC, not $3k). Latka also walks Robin through cohort-based net revenue expansion mechanics.12:43–15:47 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Contract Lengths, Commission Incentives, and Outbound Sales Structure Robin explains the tiered commission structure for multi-year contracts and their pure outbound relationship sales motion. Latka probes into the financial risk of scaling fixed payroll costs.15:49–18:18 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Acuity Scheduling Sponsorship and Efficiency Discussion The segment includes Latka's mid-roll sponsor pitch followed by a quick check on gross margins and Robin's anecdote about riding a mechanical bull to close a enterprise deal.18:18–21:03 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Standard Famous Five rapid-fire format covering book choices, favorite CEOs, Quora usage, sleep habits, and an episode recap by the host.2:55–6:26 · Guest teaching 2/10 Future's Enterprise Niche and $10 Million ARR Trajectory Latka quickly converts GBP to USD and models monthly run rates into ARR projections. Robin explains his unique two-way marketing automation product tailored specifically for professional enterprise firms.6:26–12:43 · Guest teaching 2/10 Bootstrapped Founding Story, Equity Split, and Executive Compensation Latka actively catches and corrects Robin's mental math on customer acquisition cost ($300k spent for 30 clients equals $10k CAC, not $3k). Latka also walks Robin through cohort-based net revenue expansion mechanics.12:43–15:47 · Guest teaching 3/10 Contract Lengths, Commission Incentives, and Outbound Sales Structure Robin explains the tiered commission structure for multi-year contracts and their pure outbound relationship sales motion. Latka probes into the financial risk of scaling fixed payroll costs.15:49–18:18 · Guest teaching 1/10 Acuity Scheduling Sponsorship and Efficiency Discussion The segment includes Latka's mid-roll sponsor pitch followed by a quick check on gross margins and Robin's anecdote about riding a mechanical bull to close a enterprise deal.18:18–21:03 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Standard Famous Five rapid-fire format covering book choices, favorite CEOs, Quora usage, sleep habits, and an episode recap by the host.2:55–6:26 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Future's Enterprise Niche and $10 Million ARR Trajectory Latka quickly converts GBP to USD and models monthly run rates into ARR projections. Robin explains his unique two-way marketing automation product tailored specifically for professional enterprise firms.6:26–12:43 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Bootstrapped Founding Story, Equity Split, and Executive Compensation Latka actively catches and corrects Robin's mental math on customer acquisition cost ($300k spent for 30 clients equals $10k CAC, not $3k). Latka also walks Robin through cohort-based net revenue expansion mechanics.12:43–15:47 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Contract Lengths, Commission Incentives, and Outbound Sales Structure Robin explains the tiered commission structure for multi-year contracts and their pure outbound relationship sales motion. Latka probes into the financial risk of scaling fixed payroll costs.15:49–18:18 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Acuity Scheduling Sponsorship and Efficiency Discussion The segment includes Latka's mid-roll sponsor pitch followed by a quick check on gross margins and Robin's anecdote about riding a mechanical bull to close a enterprise deal.18:18–21:03 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Standard Famous Five rapid-fire format covering book choices, favorite CEOs, Quora usage, sleep habits, and an episode recap by the host.2:55–6:26 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Future's Enterprise Niche and $10 Million ARR Trajectory Latka quickly converts GBP to USD and models monthly run rates into ARR projections. Robin explains his unique two-way marketing automation product tailored specifically for professional enterprise firms.6:26–12:43 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Bootstrapped Founding Story, Equity Split, and Executive Compensation Latka actively catches and corrects Robin's mental math on customer acquisition cost ($300k spent for 30 clients equals $10k CAC, not $3k). Latka also walks Robin through cohort-based net revenue expansion mechanics.12:43–15:47 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Contract Lengths, Commission Incentives, and Outbound Sales Structure Robin explains the tiered commission structure for multi-year contracts and their pure outbound relationship sales motion. Latka probes into the financial risk of scaling fixed payroll costs.15:49–18:18 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Acuity Scheduling Sponsorship and Efficiency Discussion The segment includes Latka's mid-roll sponsor pitch followed by a quick check on gross margins and Robin's anecdote about riding a mechanical bull to close a enterprise deal.18:18–21:03 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Standard Famous Five rapid-fire format covering book choices, favorite CEOs, Quora usage, sleep habits, and an episode recap by the host.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 73% · guest 27%0:00 · Nathan 73% · guest 27%3:00 · Nathan 24% · guest 76%3:00 · Nathan 24% · guest 76%6:00 · Nathan 38.6% · guest 61.4%6:00 · Nathan 38.6% · guest 61.4%9:00 · Nathan 61.6% · guest 38.4%9:00 · Nathan 61.6% · guest 38.4%12:00 · Nathan 49.8% · guest 50.2%12:00 · Nathan 49.8% · guest 50.2%15:00 · Nathan 64.8% · guest 35.2%15:00 · Nathan 64.8% · guest 35.2%18:00 · Nathan 19.2% · guest 80.8%18:00 · Nathan 19.2% · guest 80.8%21:00 · Nathan 92.1% · guest 7.9%21:00 · Nathan 92.1% · guest 7.9%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:15 Challenging host's lifetime value assumptions

When Latka models a hypothetical conservative 3-year LTV window, Robin immediately interrupts to correct the premise by pointing out that their standard contracts are already locked in for 3 to 5 years.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 9:05 Correcting flawed CAC arithmetic

Latka refuses to accept Robin's assertion of a $3k CAC, forcing him to recalculate $300k in spend across 30 acquired clients down to the correct $10k per customer.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 3:05 Educating host on professional services marketing

Robin educates Latka on why standard marketing automation tools fail in legal and accounting firms, where the internal fee earner retains the primary relationship and requires two-way internal automation.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 10:00 Explaining net negative revenue churn mechanics

When Robin is unsure how to define net revenue expansion, Latka breaks down the exact formula of starting MRR, churned MRR, and cohort upsell rates.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Future's Enterprise Niche and $10 Million ARR Trajectory 6212 Latka quickly converts GBP to USD and models monthly run rates into ARR projections. Robin explains his unique two-way marketing automation product tailored specifically for professional enterprise firms.
Bootstrapped Founding Story, Equity Split, and Executive Compensation 7225 Latka actively catches and corrects Robin's mental math on customer acquisition cost ($300k spent for 30 clients equals $10k CAC, not $3k). Latka also walks Robin through cohort-based net revenue expansion mechanics.
Contract Lengths, Commission Incentives, and Outbound Sales Structure 5313 Robin explains the tiered commission structure for multi-year contracts and their pure outbound relationship sales motion. Latka probes into the financial risk of scaling fixed payroll costs.
Acuity Scheduling Sponsorship and Efficiency Discussion 3112 The segment includes Latka's mid-roll sponsor pitch followed by a quick check on gross margins and Robin's anecdote about riding a mechanical bull to close a enterprise deal.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 2111 Standard Famous Five rapid-fire format covering book choices, favorite CEOs, Quora usage, sleep habits, and an episode recap by the host.

Statements from this episode (14)

Disclosure
Future employs roughly 65 to 70 staff globally
“We're about 70, 65, 70. That's split between London, we've got about 55 in London, and then 20 between New York and Sydney.”
Robin Stevens Dec 19, 2017 ▶ 2:45
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Future reached $10M ARR before Brexit currency shifts impacted revenue
“So we're approaching ten million annual reoccurring revenue. In fact we were at ten million, but Brexit happened and changed our figures a bit.”
Robin Stevens Dec 19, 2017 ▶ 4:18
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Future captures 50% of the global large enterprise law firm market
“50% of any large enterprise law firm anywhere in the world uses future and the same sort of figures for kind of accounting or you know, commercial real estate, other, other types of similar nature businesses.”
Robin Stevens Dec 19, 2017 ▶ 4:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Future grew turnover 30% annually since 2007 while maintaining profitability
“We've grown 30% every single year in terms of turnover since the start of the company and we've always been profitable.”
Robin Stevens Dec 19, 2017 ▶ 4:43
Disclosure
Future is entirely bootstrapped and wholly owned by its four founders
“Still bootstrapped. Yep. Still, still, still, you know, still owned by the four people that started it.”
Robin Stevens Dec 19, 2017 ▶ 6:09
Assertion Contradicted
Stevens: Future's four co-founders split equity equally at 25% each
“25 each.”
Robin Stevens Dec 19, 2017 ▶ 6:47
Disclosure
Future's co-founders take different salaries, with Stevens earning sales commissions
“We've got different salaries depending on the roles that we're doing. So, so as we've got to a level where we're operating like a normal company, we've got different people doing different things. So the salespeople, and I'm one salespeople, part of my remuner…”
Robin Stevens Dec 19, 2017 ▶ 7:12
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Future reaches 300 paying enterprise customers
“So we've got 300 customers.”
Robin Stevens Dec 19, 2017 ▶ 7:53
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Future spent $300k yearly on a two-person sales team for a decade
“So we had two, two people for about eight years, maybe nine years. We had two people in the, that was the entire sales and marketing team. I think our spend per year was somewhere in the region of 300,000 dollars.”
Robin Stevens Dec 19, 2017 ▶ 8:32
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Future experiences roughly 0.3% annual churn, losing about one client yearly
“Yeah, so, so we're more like 0.3% churn, i.e. We lose about one client a year, and that's more often than not because a merge has happened or something out of our control.”
Robin Stevens Dec 19, 2017 ▶ 9:34
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Future typically closes three- to five-year enterprise contracts
“Nathan, we normally do three to five year contracts.”
Robin Stevens Dec 19, 2017 ▶ 12:29
Disclosure
Future pays sales reps 8% to 12% commissions based on contract length
“We do eight, 10, and 12, whether it's a one-year, three, or a five-year.”
Robin Stevens Dec 19, 2017 ▶ 13:31
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Future's global total addressable market is only about 2,000 potential buyers
“There are probably 2000 people in the world that can buy our services.”
Robin Stevens Dec 19, 2017 ▶ 14:20
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Stevens won an enterprise client by agreeing to ride a mechanical bull
“I said, I would do a riding the mechanical bull if you take a demo of the future platform. She said, okay. So I did the bull. I lasted about five seconds before I got fired into the side. And then she took a demo and became a client.”
Robin Stevens Dec 19, 2017 ▶ 18:00
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