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Jan 2, 2018 · 20m · top-founders

892 SaaS: How he Sold 80,000 Seats at $10 a pop

Bastin Gerald · 10m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Nathan Latka interviews Bastin Gerald, founder and CEO of Apptivo, exploring how the company built an integrated, all-in-one business software platform that achieved 80,000 paying seats and up to $800,000 in monthly recurring revenue through capital efficiency and organic marketplace distribution.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 40.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.5 Guest teaching 2.0 Guest disagreement 1.2 Nathan pushing back 3.8
05100:0010:0020:000:48–5:29 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Introducing Bastin Gerald and Apptivo's Core Mission Latka immediately interrupts Gerald to challenge what he perceives as a contradiction between enterprise software and a small business target audience. Gerald clarifies his vision of bringing enterprise-grade unified software to SMBs at a low price point.5:29–8:24 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Competing with Specialized Point Solutions Through Integration Latka lists numerous dominant point solutions across CRM, project management, and invoicing, asking how Apptivo can possibly compete. Gerald explains the seamless data flow advantage of an all-in-one suite over fragmented point tools.8:26–11:58 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 HostGator Website Hosting and Growth Tools Sponsorship Latka dissects Apptivo's user counts, pushing Gerald when he attempts to exclude large enterprise accounts from seat counts. Latka calculates Gerald's monthly recurring revenue on the fly to around $700k-$800k.11:59–15:08 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 App Marketplace Distribution, Churn, and Upsell Strategy Gerald explains how ranking in app marketplaces like Google and Office 365 fueled early growth, alongside low annual logo churn. Latka explores expansion levers beyond the standard $10 seat pricing.15:08–17:13 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Customer Acquisition Economics and Lifetime Value Analysis Latka drills into customer acquisition economics and presses Gerald for a fully loaded CAC figure. Gerald admits he does not track a precise CAC number, and Latka reconstructs LTV from average seat size and tenure.17:14–19:55 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion The conversation moves through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, with Latka reframing a misunderstood question before concluding with a comprehensive summary of Apptivo's business metrics.0:48–5:29 · Guest teaching 2/10 Introducing Bastin Gerald and Apptivo's Core Mission Latka immediately interrupts Gerald to challenge what he perceives as a contradiction between enterprise software and a small business target audience. Gerald clarifies his vision of bringing enterprise-grade unified software to SMBs at a low price point.5:29–8:24 · Guest teaching 4/10 Competing with Specialized Point Solutions Through Integration Latka lists numerous dominant point solutions across CRM, project management, and invoicing, asking how Apptivo can possibly compete. Gerald explains the seamless data flow advantage of an all-in-one suite over fragmented point tools.8:26–11:58 · Guest teaching 2/10 HostGator Website Hosting and Growth Tools Sponsorship Latka dissects Apptivo's user counts, pushing Gerald when he attempts to exclude large enterprise accounts from seat counts. Latka calculates Gerald's monthly recurring revenue on the fly to around $700k-$800k.11:59–15:08 · Guest teaching 2/10 App Marketplace Distribution, Churn, and Upsell Strategy Gerald explains how ranking in app marketplaces like Google and Office 365 fueled early growth, alongside low annual logo churn. Latka explores expansion levers beyond the standard $10 seat pricing.15:08–17:13 · Guest teaching 1/10 Customer Acquisition Economics and Lifetime Value Analysis Latka drills into customer acquisition economics and presses Gerald for a fully loaded CAC figure. Gerald admits he does not track a precise CAC number, and Latka reconstructs LTV from average seat size and tenure.17:14–19:55 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion The conversation moves through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, with Latka reframing a misunderstood question before concluding with a comprehensive summary of Apptivo's business metrics.0:48–5:29 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Introducing Bastin Gerald and Apptivo's Core Mission Latka immediately interrupts Gerald to challenge what he perceives as a contradiction between enterprise software and a small business target audience. Gerald clarifies his vision of bringing enterprise-grade unified software to SMBs at a low price point.5:29–8:24 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Competing with Specialized Point Solutions Through Integration Latka lists numerous dominant point solutions across CRM, project management, and invoicing, asking how Apptivo can possibly compete. Gerald explains the seamless data flow advantage of an all-in-one suite over fragmented point tools.8:26–11:58 · Guest disagreement 1/10 HostGator Website Hosting and Growth Tools Sponsorship Latka dissects Apptivo's user counts, pushing Gerald when he attempts to exclude large enterprise accounts from seat counts. Latka calculates Gerald's monthly recurring revenue on the fly to around $700k-$800k.11:59–15:08 · Guest disagreement 1/10 App Marketplace Distribution, Churn, and Upsell Strategy Gerald explains how ranking in app marketplaces like Google and Office 365 fueled early growth, alongside low annual logo churn. Latka explores expansion levers beyond the standard $10 seat pricing.15:08–17:13 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Customer Acquisition Economics and Lifetime Value Analysis Latka drills into customer acquisition economics and presses Gerald for a fully loaded CAC figure. Gerald admits he does not track a precise CAC number, and Latka reconstructs LTV from average seat size and tenure.17:14–19:55 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion The conversation moves through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, with Latka reframing a misunderstood question before concluding with a comprehensive summary of Apptivo's business metrics.0:48–5:29 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Introducing Bastin Gerald and Apptivo's Core Mission Latka immediately interrupts Gerald to challenge what he perceives as a contradiction between enterprise software and a small business target audience. Gerald clarifies his vision of bringing enterprise-grade unified software to SMBs at a low price point.5:29–8:24 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Competing with Specialized Point Solutions Through Integration Latka lists numerous dominant point solutions across CRM, project management, and invoicing, asking how Apptivo can possibly compete. Gerald explains the seamless data flow advantage of an all-in-one suite over fragmented point tools.8:26–11:58 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 HostGator Website Hosting and Growth Tools Sponsorship Latka dissects Apptivo's user counts, pushing Gerald when he attempts to exclude large enterprise accounts from seat counts. Latka calculates Gerald's monthly recurring revenue on the fly to around $700k-$800k.11:59–15:08 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 App Marketplace Distribution, Churn, and Upsell Strategy Gerald explains how ranking in app marketplaces like Google and Office 365 fueled early growth, alongside low annual logo churn. Latka explores expansion levers beyond the standard $10 seat pricing.15:08–17:13 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Customer Acquisition Economics and Lifetime Value Analysis Latka drills into customer acquisition economics and presses Gerald for a fully loaded CAC figure. Gerald admits he does not track a precise CAC number, and Latka reconstructs LTV from average seat size and tenure.17:14–19:55 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion The conversation moves through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, with Latka reframing a misunderstood question before concluding with a comprehensive summary of Apptivo's business metrics.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 54% · guest 46%0:00 · Nathan 54% · guest 46%3:00 · Nathan 35.3% · guest 64.7%3:00 · Nathan 35.3% · guest 64.7%6:00 · Nathan 22.2% · guest 77.8%6:00 · Nathan 22.2% · guest 77.8%9:00 · Nathan 59% · guest 41%9:00 · Nathan 59% · guest 41%12:00 · Nathan 24.1% · guest 75.9%12:00 · Nathan 24.1% · guest 75.9%15:00 · Nathan 41.3% · guest 58.7%15:00 · Nathan 41.3% · guest 58.7%18:00 · Nathan 54.4% · guest 45.6%18:00 · Nathan 54.4% · guest 45.6%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 1:22 Gerald rejects host's contradiction charge

Gerald firmly defends his value proposition after Latka claims that selling enterprise software to small businesses is inherently contradictory.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 11:09 Latka rejects exclusion of enterprise contracts

When Gerald tries to omit large accounts from his customer metrics, Latka explicitly tells him he must include them to get an accurate total seat count.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 7:08 Gerald explains data silos in point solutions

Gerald educates Latka on why users choose Apptivo over FreshBooks, detailing the painful manual re-entry of CRM data needed when using disconnected point solutions.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 11:40 Latka calculates MRR on the spot

Latka combines the 80,000 seat count with enterprise volume discounts to instantly estimate Apptivo's monthly revenue run-rate within accurate bounds.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Bastin Gerald and Apptivo's Core Mission 5224 Latka immediately interrupts Gerald to challenge what he perceives as a contradiction between enterprise software and a small business target audience. Gerald clarifies his vision of bringing enterprise-grade unified software to SMBs at a low price point.
Competing with Specialized Point Solutions Through Integration 6414 Latka lists numerous dominant point solutions across CRM, project management, and invoicing, asking how Apptivo can possibly compete. Gerald explains the seamless data flow advantage of an all-in-one suite over fragmented point tools.
HostGator Website Hosting and Growth Tools Sponsorship 7216 Latka dissects Apptivo's user counts, pushing Gerald when he attempts to exclude large enterprise accounts from seat counts. Latka calculates Gerald's monthly recurring revenue on the fly to around $700k-$800k.
App Marketplace Distribution, Churn, and Upsell Strategy 5212 Gerald explains how ranking in app marketplaces like Google and Office 365 fueled early growth, alongside low annual logo churn. Latka explores expansion levers beyond the standard $10 seat pricing.
Customer Acquisition Economics and Lifetime Value Analysis 6115 Latka drills into customer acquisition economics and presses Gerald for a fully loaded CAC figure. Gerald admits he does not track a precise CAC number, and Latka reconstructs LTV from average seat size and tenure.
The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion 4112 The conversation moves through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, with Latka reframing a misunderstood question before concluding with a comprehensive summary of Apptivo's business metrics.

Statements from this episode (13)

Opinion
Gerald: Small businesses need enterprise software more than large corporations do
“Small businesses need the, need them more than enterprises in my opinion because they're juggling like too many balls.”
Bastin Gerald Jan 2, 2018 ▶ 1:36
Disclosure
Gerald: Apptivo charges $10 per user per month
“And we charge a 10 dollars a user a month is our, that's, we have a freemium model.”
Bastin Gerald Jan 2, 2018 ▶ 2:14
Disclosure
Gerald: Apptivo's average team size grew from one to five seats
“So the average is increasing. It's more like five right now. On an average. But You know, it used to be like one, like five years ago.”
Bastin Gerald Jan 2, 2018 ▶ 2:52
Disclosure
Gerald: Apptivo employs around 300 people
“Oh, we have around 300 employees.”
Bastin Gerald Jan 2, 2018 ▶ 3:12
Disclosure
Gerald: Apptivo splits team between India engineering and California GTM
“Majority of the engineering happens from India and majority of the product management, but actually all of the product management, sales, everything marketing happens from Fremont here in California.”
Bastin Gerald Jan 2, 2018 ▶ 3:29
Disclosure
Gerald: Apptivo has taken no institutional venture capital
“We've I mean, mostly bootstrapped, and then we've raised some capital from private investors. We've not done any Venture investment yet, like an institutional investment yet.”
Bastin Gerald Jan 2, 2018 ▶ 4:12
Disclosure
Gerald: Apptivo has raised close to $3.5 million
“So we've raised close to three and a half million so far.”
Bastin Gerald Jan 2, 2018 ▶ 4:23
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Gerald: Apptivo serves over 200,000 businesses worldwide
“We are over 200,000 businesses worldwide.”
Bastin Gerald Jan 2, 2018 ▶ 10:19
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Gerald: Over 75% of Apptivo's users are on the free tier
“Actually, more than 75% of them are not, are free users.”
Bastin Gerald Jan 2, 2018 ▶ 10:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Gerald: Apptivo generates slightly under $800,000 in MRR
“No, no, it's actually around that, a little bit less than that.”
Bastin Gerald Jan 2, 2018 ▶ 11:40
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Gerald: Apptivo experiences roughly 15% annual churn
“You know, if you look at churns, probably like, you know, in the, you know, 15%.”
Bastin Gerald Jan 2, 2018 ▶ 13:27
Disclosure
Gerald: Apptivo spent zero on paid acquisition last month
“It's actually zero last month.”
Bastin Gerald Jan 2, 2018 ▶ 15:23
Disclosure
Gerald: Apptivo assumes customer lifespan is 3 to 4 years
“Three, four years.”
Bastin Gerald Jan 2, 2018 ▶ 17:01
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