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Jan 7, 2018 · 20m · top-founders

897 His Mobile App Was Downloaded 8m Times, Now Builds for Others Doing $9m+ This Year

Brian Howard · 10m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this interview, In Motion Software co-founder Brian Howard details how he transitioned from developing viral, top-ranking mobile games to running a 70-person enterprise software agency approaching $10 million in revenue. He shares strategic insights on App Store optimization, client retainer models, and mitigating business risk in high-growth technology companies.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 42.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.0 Guest teaching 2.0 Guest disagreement 1.5 Nathan pushing back 4.3
05100:0010:0020:001:13–3:20 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Early Hit Games and the Success of 'I Dig It' Nathan presses Brian to define and quantify what success meant during his early game development days, extracting metrics around downloads and revenue. Brian responds cooperatively with historical metrics about 'I Dig It'.3:20–9:00 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Gaming Market Risks and the Agency Pivot Nathan probes why Brian's later game flopped after heavy investment and questions how the agency can sell replication of success when Brian admitted hit games are unpredictable. Brian clarifies that they replicate execution rather than market predictability.9:02–15:20 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Sponsor Break: Acuity Scheduling The segment includes an ad read followed by Nathan aggressively probing for App Store ranking secrets and ASO tactics, expressing skepticism when Brian claims there is no silver bullet.15:22–19:14 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Founding Origins, Early iPhone Utility, and Revenue Growth Nathan inquires about founding details, early utility apps, equity ownership, and financial projections for 2016 and 2017, concluding with the standard rapid-fire questions.1:13–3:20 · Guest teaching 2/10 Early Hit Games and the Success of 'I Dig It' Nathan presses Brian to define and quantify what success meant during his early game development days, extracting metrics around downloads and revenue. Brian responds cooperatively with historical metrics about 'I Dig It'.3:20–9:00 · Guest teaching 3/10 Gaming Market Risks and the Agency Pivot Nathan probes why Brian's later game flopped after heavy investment and questions how the agency can sell replication of success when Brian admitted hit games are unpredictable. Brian clarifies that they replicate execution rather than market predictability.9:02–15:20 · Guest teaching 2/10 Sponsor Break: Acuity Scheduling The segment includes an ad read followed by Nathan aggressively probing for App Store ranking secrets and ASO tactics, expressing skepticism when Brian claims there is no silver bullet.15:22–19:14 · Guest teaching 1/10 Founding Origins, Early iPhone Utility, and Revenue Growth Nathan inquires about founding details, early utility apps, equity ownership, and financial projections for 2016 and 2017, concluding with the standard rapid-fire questions.1:13–3:20 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Early Hit Games and the Success of 'I Dig It' Nathan presses Brian to define and quantify what success meant during his early game development days, extracting metrics around downloads and revenue. Brian responds cooperatively with historical metrics about 'I Dig It'.3:20–9:00 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Gaming Market Risks and the Agency Pivot Nathan probes why Brian's later game flopped after heavy investment and questions how the agency can sell replication of success when Brian admitted hit games are unpredictable. Brian clarifies that they replicate execution rather than market predictability.9:02–15:20 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Sponsor Break: Acuity Scheduling The segment includes an ad read followed by Nathan aggressively probing for App Store ranking secrets and ASO tactics, expressing skepticism when Brian claims there is no silver bullet.15:22–19:14 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Founding Origins, Early iPhone Utility, and Revenue Growth Nathan inquires about founding details, early utility apps, equity ownership, and financial projections for 2016 and 2017, concluding with the standard rapid-fire questions.1:13–3:20 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Early Hit Games and the Success of 'I Dig It' Nathan presses Brian to define and quantify what success meant during his early game development days, extracting metrics around downloads and revenue. Brian responds cooperatively with historical metrics about 'I Dig It'.3:20–9:00 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Gaming Market Risks and the Agency Pivot Nathan probes why Brian's later game flopped after heavy investment and questions how the agency can sell replication of success when Brian admitted hit games are unpredictable. Brian clarifies that they replicate execution rather than market predictability.9:02–15:20 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Sponsor Break: Acuity Scheduling The segment includes an ad read followed by Nathan aggressively probing for App Store ranking secrets and ASO tactics, expressing skepticism when Brian claims there is no silver bullet.15:22–19:14 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Founding Origins, Early iPhone Utility, and Revenue Growth Nathan inquires about founding details, early utility apps, equity ownership, and financial projections for 2016 and 2017, concluding with the standard rapid-fire questions.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 61.6% · guest 38.4%0:00 · Nathan 61.6% · guest 38.4%3:00 · Nathan 16% · guest 84%3:00 · Nathan 16% · guest 84%6:00 · Nathan 27.9% · guest 72.1%6:00 · Nathan 27.9% · guest 72.1%9:00 · Nathan 71.8% · guest 28.2%9:00 · Nathan 71.8% · guest 28.2%12:00 · Nathan 42% · guest 58%12:00 · Nathan 42% · guest 58%15:00 · Nathan 22.6% · guest 77.4%15:00 · Nathan 22.6% · guest 77.4%18:00 · Nathan 56.8% · guest 43.2%18:00 · Nathan 56.8% · guest 43.2%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:24 Brian resists revealing non-existent secrets

Brian firmly rejects Nathan's insinuation that he is hiding proprietary App Store ranking algorithms, maintaining that the platform tweaks parameters unpredictably.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 5:53 Nathan points out contradiction in agency promise

Nathan directly challenges Brian by pointing out that if Brian couldn't predict his own game's success, he cannot claim to replicate hit products for agency clients.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 3:36 Brian explains why the gaming industry is brutal

Brian breaks down the mechanics of game development risks, showing why MVPs don't work easily in capital-intensive consumer gaming.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 14:07 Nathan highlights agency client concentration risk

Nathan leverages his industry knowledge to press Brian on the standard agency pitfall of over-relying on a single account that generates over 20 percent of revenue.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Early Hit Games and the Success of 'I Dig It' 4214 Nathan presses Brian to define and quantify what success meant during his early game development days, extracting metrics around downloads and revenue. Brian responds cooperatively with historical metrics about 'I Dig It'.
Gaming Market Risks and the Agency Pivot 5325 Nathan probes why Brian's later game flopped after heavy investment and questions how the agency can sell replication of success when Brian admitted hit games are unpredictable. Brian clarifies that they replicate execution rather than market predictability.
Sponsor Break: Acuity Scheduling 4225 The segment includes an ad read followed by Nathan aggressively probing for App Store ranking secrets and ASO tactics, expressing skepticism when Brian claims there is no silver bullet.
Founding Origins, Early iPhone Utility, and Revenue Growth 3113 Nathan inquires about founding details, early utility apps, equity ownership, and financial projections for 2016 and 2017, concluding with the standard rapid-fire questions.

Statements from this episode (8)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
In Motion Software's game 'I Dig It' achieved around 7M downloads
“So that game would be, I dig it. That was our number one hit. I don't know the exact numbers, but probably something in the order of seven million downloads. Downloads. Some of those we did run an experiment for a while where we did release it for free. So not…”
Brian Howard Jan 7, 2018 ▶ 2:44
Insight
Howard: Game development cannot effectively rely on MVP releases
“You spend a lot of money building a product that you can't really prove out until it's done. You can't really release MVPs very well and continue to update and things like that.”
Brian Howard Jan 7, 2018 ▶ 3:38
Disclosure
Howard: In Motion operates on monthly retainers rather than fixed-price contracts
“One thing I think we do a little different on the agency model is we don't really go for that fixed price contracts. We focus a lot more on building sort of long-term relationships. We go for closer to what I would describe as a retainer model. So we basically…”
Brian Howard Jan 7, 2018 ▶ 7:35
Disclosure
Howard: In Motion pursues multi-year enterprise contracts lasting up to four years
“Yeah, I mean, they're multi-year contracts. It's you know, larger efforts. We go after the stuff that's, you know, more of the enterprise, but you know, we're not going after these two small two or three month development cycles. We're going for stuff that's I…”
Brian Howard Jan 7, 2018 ▶ 8:43
Disclosure
Howard: In Motion employs 60 people, plans to reach 70 by year-end
“We've got about 60 people and we'll be probably hitting around 70 before the end of this year.”
Brian Howard Jan 7, 2018 ▶ 13:13
Disclosure
Howard: In Motion Software services 10 to 12 clients concurrently
“It probably ranges. I would say Right now, 10 to 12, something in that in that range.”
Brian Howard Jan 7, 2018 ▶ 13:27
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Howard: In Motion Software hit 50% YoY growth for three years
“We're in a growth model, so we've been hitting probably 50% growth year over year for the last three years.”
Brian Howard Jan 7, 2018 ▶ 17:48
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Howard: In Motion Software is on track for 100% growth in 2017
“Well, this year, actually, we're on track to a hundred percent growth this year, so.”
Brian Howard Jan 7, 2018 ▶ 17:56
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