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Jan 18, 2018 · 22m · top-founders

908 SaaS: Miva is Enterprise Shopify, Passes $16m in ARR Founded in 1996

Rick Wilson · 12m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs podcast, host Nathan Latka interviews Miva CEO Rick Wilson to examine how the enterprise e-commerce platform scaled past $16 million in ARR following a 2007 management buyout. Wilson details Miva's predictable tiered SaaS pricing, complex catalog architecture, and exceptional enterprise retention metrics in the digital commerce sector.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 38.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.6 Guest teaching 2.4 Guest disagreement 1.0 Nathan pushing back 2.4
05100:0010:0020:001:15–4:24 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Miva's E-Commerce Positioning and Tiered SaaS Pricing Model Latka explores Miva's pricing structure and actively connects their SaaS tiering to a client's accounting benefits, noting how it shifts e-commerce software from a COGS line item to a predictable fixed expense. Wilson explains why customer friction over basis-point fee models made flat subscription tiers superior.4:24–10:51 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Miva's Dot-Com Origins and the 2007 Management Buyout Wilson recounts the history of Miva from the dot-com era to buying the company out from FindWhat in 2007. Latka enthusiastically validates Wilson's calculated bluff to secure the NDA and financials before raising turnaround capital.10:51–14:24 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Bootstrapping Growth, Institutional Recapitalization, and Enterprise Strategy Latka probes the $18M private equity round and questions Wilson's personal liquidity choices before doing on-the-fly math on customer revenue tiers. Wilson explains their strategic shift toward enterprise customers with 750,000 SKUs and ERP integrations that outgrow Shopify.14:26–20:10 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Sponsor Break: Nathan Latka's Acquisition of The Top Inbox Latka drills down on unit economics including MRR ranges, SMB versus enterprise churn rates, and sales rep efficiency to calculate fully-weighted CAC and payback periods. Wilson candidly provides figures on low marketing spend and high SaaS margins.20:10–22:40 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Conclusion Latka pushes Wilson past mainstream CEO names to get a lesser-known operational mentor during the Famous Five. Latka concludes with a tight executive summary of Miva's financials and trajectory.1:15–4:24 · Guest teaching 3/10 Miva's E-Commerce Positioning and Tiered SaaS Pricing Model Latka explores Miva's pricing structure and actively connects their SaaS tiering to a client's accounting benefits, noting how it shifts e-commerce software from a COGS line item to a predictable fixed expense. Wilson explains why customer friction over basis-point fee models made flat subscription tiers superior.4:24–10:51 · Guest teaching 2/10 Miva's Dot-Com Origins and the 2007 Management Buyout Wilson recounts the history of Miva from the dot-com era to buying the company out from FindWhat in 2007. Latka enthusiastically validates Wilson's calculated bluff to secure the NDA and financials before raising turnaround capital.10:51–14:24 · Guest teaching 4/10 Bootstrapping Growth, Institutional Recapitalization, and Enterprise Strategy Latka probes the $18M private equity round and questions Wilson's personal liquidity choices before doing on-the-fly math on customer revenue tiers. Wilson explains their strategic shift toward enterprise customers with 750,000 SKUs and ERP integrations that outgrow Shopify.14:26–20:10 · Guest teaching 2/10 Sponsor Break: Nathan Latka's Acquisition of The Top Inbox Latka drills down on unit economics including MRR ranges, SMB versus enterprise churn rates, and sales rep efficiency to calculate fully-weighted CAC and payback periods. Wilson candidly provides figures on low marketing spend and high SaaS margins.20:10–22:40 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Conclusion Latka pushes Wilson past mainstream CEO names to get a lesser-known operational mentor during the Famous Five. Latka concludes with a tight executive summary of Miva's financials and trajectory.1:15–4:24 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Miva's E-Commerce Positioning and Tiered SaaS Pricing Model Latka explores Miva's pricing structure and actively connects their SaaS tiering to a client's accounting benefits, noting how it shifts e-commerce software from a COGS line item to a predictable fixed expense. Wilson explains why customer friction over basis-point fee models made flat subscription tiers superior.4:24–10:51 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Miva's Dot-Com Origins and the 2007 Management Buyout Wilson recounts the history of Miva from the dot-com era to buying the company out from FindWhat in 2007. Latka enthusiastically validates Wilson's calculated bluff to secure the NDA and financials before raising turnaround capital.10:51–14:24 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Bootstrapping Growth, Institutional Recapitalization, and Enterprise Strategy Latka probes the $18M private equity round and questions Wilson's personal liquidity choices before doing on-the-fly math on customer revenue tiers. Wilson explains their strategic shift toward enterprise customers with 750,000 SKUs and ERP integrations that outgrow Shopify.14:26–20:10 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sponsor Break: Nathan Latka's Acquisition of The Top Inbox Latka drills down on unit economics including MRR ranges, SMB versus enterprise churn rates, and sales rep efficiency to calculate fully-weighted CAC and payback periods. Wilson candidly provides figures on low marketing spend and high SaaS margins.20:10–22:40 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Conclusion Latka pushes Wilson past mainstream CEO names to get a lesser-known operational mentor during the Famous Five. Latka concludes with a tight executive summary of Miva's financials and trajectory.1:15–4:24 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Miva's E-Commerce Positioning and Tiered SaaS Pricing Model Latka explores Miva's pricing structure and actively connects their SaaS tiering to a client's accounting benefits, noting how it shifts e-commerce software from a COGS line item to a predictable fixed expense. Wilson explains why customer friction over basis-point fee models made flat subscription tiers superior.4:24–10:51 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Miva's Dot-Com Origins and the 2007 Management Buyout Wilson recounts the history of Miva from the dot-com era to buying the company out from FindWhat in 2007. Latka enthusiastically validates Wilson's calculated bluff to secure the NDA and financials before raising turnaround capital.10:51–14:24 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Bootstrapping Growth, Institutional Recapitalization, and Enterprise Strategy Latka probes the $18M private equity round and questions Wilson's personal liquidity choices before doing on-the-fly math on customer revenue tiers. Wilson explains their strategic shift toward enterprise customers with 750,000 SKUs and ERP integrations that outgrow Shopify.14:26–20:10 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Sponsor Break: Nathan Latka's Acquisition of The Top Inbox Latka drills down on unit economics including MRR ranges, SMB versus enterprise churn rates, and sales rep efficiency to calculate fully-weighted CAC and payback periods. Wilson candidly provides figures on low marketing spend and high SaaS margins.20:10–22:40 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Conclusion Latka pushes Wilson past mainstream CEO names to get a lesser-known operational mentor during the Famous Five. Latka concludes with a tight executive summary of Miva's financials and trajectory.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 51.8% · guest 48.2%0:00 · Nathan 51.8% · guest 48.2%3:00 · Nathan 17.9% · guest 82.1%3:00 · Nathan 17.9% · guest 82.1%6:00 · Nathan 39.4% · guest 60.6%6:00 · Nathan 39.4% · guest 60.6%9:00 · Nathan 24.8% · guest 75.2%9:00 · Nathan 24.8% · guest 75.2%12:00 · Nathan 28.5% · guest 71.5%12:00 · Nathan 28.5% · guest 71.5%15:00 · Nathan 58% · guest 42%15:00 · Nathan 58% · guest 42%18:00 · Nathan 36.6% · guest 63.4%18:00 · Nathan 36.6% · guest 63.4%21:00 · Nathan 60.1% · guest 39.9%21:00 · Nathan 60.1% · guest 39.9%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:09 Wilson contrasts complex enterprise needs against basic Shopify

Wilson firmly rejects the oversimplified comparison of Miva to lightweight platforms like Shopify, detailing why businesses with massive SKU catalogs and ERP systems cannot use simpler competitors.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 20:29 Latka rejects standard CEO answers

When Wilson names conventional tech titans like Bezos and Musk, Latka immediately pushes back and demands a lesser-known, undercover mentor figure.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 3:03 Wilson explains customer psychology around transaction fees

Wilson educates Latka on why percentage-of-transaction models generate customer resentment over basis points and chargebacks, leading Miva to adopt predictable revenue buckets instead.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 4:02 Latka articulates P&L shifting mechanics

Latka demonstrates his financial expertise by translating Wilson's pricing philosophy into corporate P&L accounting, explaining the psychological advantage of shifting software costs from COGS to fixed expenses.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Miva's E-Commerce Positioning and Tiered SaaS Pricing Model 6312 Latka explores Miva's pricing structure and actively connects their SaaS tiering to a client's accounting benefits, noting how it shifts e-commerce software from a COGS line item to a predictable fixed expense. Wilson explains why customer friction over basis-point fee models made flat subscription tiers superior.
Miva's Dot-Com Origins and the 2007 Management Buyout 5212 Wilson recounts the history of Miva from the dot-com era to buying the company out from FindWhat in 2007. Latka enthusiastically validates Wilson's calculated bluff to secure the NDA and financials before raising turnaround capital.
Bootstrapping Growth, Institutional Recapitalization, and Enterprise Strategy 6423 Latka probes the $18M private equity round and questions Wilson's personal liquidity choices before doing on-the-fly math on customer revenue tiers. Wilson explains their strategic shift toward enterprise customers with 750,000 SKUs and ERP integrations that outgrow Shopify.
Sponsor Break: Nathan Latka's Acquisition of The Top Inbox 7213 Latka drills down on unit economics including MRR ranges, SMB versus enterprise churn rates, and sales rep efficiency to calculate fully-weighted CAC and payback periods. Wilson candidly provides figures on low marketing spend and high SaaS margins.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Conclusion 4102 Latka pushes Wilson past mainstream CEO names to get a lesser-known operational mentor during the Famous Five. Latka concludes with a tight executive summary of Miva's financials and trajectory.

Statements from this episode (12)

Disclosure
Miva ARPU reaches $300 monthly, $2,000 for enterprise
“Our average customer pays us about 300 dollars per month and our average enterprise customers paying us around two grand a month.”
Rick Wilson Jan 18, 2018 ▶ 2:21
Disclosure
Wilson: Taylor Swift runs official merchandising store on Miva
“Our most famous customer, even though she's not our largest customer is Taylor Swift. So so Taylor uses us for her merchandising store.”
Rick Wilson Jan 18, 2018 ▶ 2:35
Opinion
Latka: Starting a company from scratch is the stupidest way to build
“A lot of people think the only way to like build something meaningful is to start a company. It's actually like probably the stupidest way to do it. It's much easier to like find an asset, figure out how to pull it out.”
Nathan Latka Jan 18, 2018 ▶ 6:50
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Wilson: Acquired Miva for $1.5M all-in in 2007
“So we bought it for all in about a million and a half bucks. That included the turnaround capital. And actually that's what we raised and bought. I mean, so we paid them less, but that's what it took to do.”
Rick Wilson Jan 18, 2018 ▶ 10:19
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Wilson: Miva was doing $500K net revenue at 2007 buyout
“After cost of goods, it was about half a million bucks a year at the time, even though it had a huge number of customers.”
Rick Wilson Jan 18, 2018 ▶ 10:34
Assertion Supported
Miva raised $18M in PE funding in April 2017
“We took our first round of professional money in April of this year. We raised eighteen million dollars from a private equity firm.”
Rick Wilson Jan 18, 2018 ▶ 11:06
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Miva has 6,000 active customers and 400 enterprise clients
“So we have about 6000 active customers across the board, but our focus really is our enterprise customers. And so we have 400 of those”
Rick Wilson Jan 18, 2018 ▶ 12:58
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wilson: Miva's enterprise customers stay for over a decade
“Our average enterprise customer lasts more than a decade.”
Rick Wilson Jan 18, 2018 ▶ 13:26
Opinion
Wilson: Shopify cannot handle complex high-SKU enterprise architectures
“If you're selling auto parts, And when you're all said and done with child SKUs, you have 750,000 child SKUs and you need to connect it to an ERP system and you need it to ship to your multiple warehouses. You're not getting there with Shopify.”
Rick Wilson Jan 18, 2018 ▶ 13:47
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wilson: Miva enterprise churn is sub-2% while SMB churn is ~18%
“Our annual churn for enterprise customers is sub two percent and our SMB churn is in the, 18% a year range.”
Rick Wilson Jan 18, 2018 ▶ 16:48
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wilson: Miva SMB customers average $1,000/year and stay for six years
“So you got about a thousand dollars a year in total income on those guys, and then they last about six years.”
Rick Wilson Jan 18, 2018 ▶ 17:18
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wilson: Miva has remained profitable for the past 10 years
“Because we've been profitable this whole time for the last 10 years, we, we're not seeing 50, 8000% or more growth.”
Rick Wilson Jan 18, 2018 ▶ 19:54
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