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May 13, 2018 · 23m · top-founders

1023 Will He Win Battle For Bottom of Blog

John Lemp · 13m spoken Nathan Latka · 8m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs, host Nathan Latka interviews RevContent founder John Lemp, uncovering how he built a profitable, 100% bootstrapped native advertising network generating $184 million in volume while championing an open web against Big Tech monopolies.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 38.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 6.0 Guest teaching 3.0 Guest disagreement 2.8 Nathan pushing back 5.7
05100:0010:0020:000:49–4:37 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Introducing John Lemp and RevContent's Bootstrapped Model Latka identifies the space by comparing RevContent directly to Outbrain and Taboola, then pushes Lemp to speak candidly when he hesitates. He also clarifies the business model as an ad marketplace rather than SaaS.4:38–9:42 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Debating Clickbait Yield Versus Long-Term User Trust Latka relentlessly challenges Lemp on the fundamental conflict between clickbait yield incentives and quality recommendations, citing Murdoch and Facebook's issues. Lemp pushes back by explaining RevContent's dual-sided quality score and attribution algorithm.9:42–12:40 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Hypothetical Monetization Shifts and Global Team Footprint Latka poses a hypothetical scenario where regulatory changes ban CPM/CPC advertising, prompting Lemp to explain his contingency shift to affiliate or content distribution models before sharing his global team headcount.12:42–15:08 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Analyzing RevContent's Bootstrapped Financial Metrics and Margins Latka runs quick mental math on head count burn and aggressively unpacks the difference between RevContent's reported $184M gross spend and their actual 20% take rate net margin.15:09–18:21 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Acquisition Philosophy and Resisting Big Tech Monopolies Latka cuts through Lemp's vague answer regarding business growth across different departments to demand specific top-line revenue growth percentages, leading into Lemp's argument against Big Tech monopolies.18:21–22:21 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Navigating Industry Competition and Eliminating Founder Ego Latka references Disqus' acquisition to bait an aggressive competitor response, calling out Lemp's diplomatic reply as fluffy before moving into a rapid-fire Famous Five round.0:49–4:37 · Guest teaching 3/10 Introducing John Lemp and RevContent's Bootstrapped Model Latka identifies the space by comparing RevContent directly to Outbrain and Taboola, then pushes Lemp to speak candidly when he hesitates. He also clarifies the business model as an ad marketplace rather than SaaS.4:38–9:42 · Guest teaching 4/10 Debating Clickbait Yield Versus Long-Term User Trust Latka relentlessly challenges Lemp on the fundamental conflict between clickbait yield incentives and quality recommendations, citing Murdoch and Facebook's issues. Lemp pushes back by explaining RevContent's dual-sided quality score and attribution algorithm.9:42–12:40 · Guest teaching 2/10 Hypothetical Monetization Shifts and Global Team Footprint Latka poses a hypothetical scenario where regulatory changes ban CPM/CPC advertising, prompting Lemp to explain his contingency shift to affiliate or content distribution models before sharing his global team headcount.12:42–15:08 · Guest teaching 3/10 Analyzing RevContent's Bootstrapped Financial Metrics and Margins Latka runs quick mental math on head count burn and aggressively unpacks the difference between RevContent's reported $184M gross spend and their actual 20% take rate net margin.15:09–18:21 · Guest teaching 3/10 Acquisition Philosophy and Resisting Big Tech Monopolies Latka cuts through Lemp's vague answer regarding business growth across different departments to demand specific top-line revenue growth percentages, leading into Lemp's argument against Big Tech monopolies.18:21–22:21 · Guest teaching 3/10 Navigating Industry Competition and Eliminating Founder Ego Latka references Disqus' acquisition to bait an aggressive competitor response, calling out Lemp's diplomatic reply as fluffy before moving into a rapid-fire Famous Five round.0:49–4:37 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Introducing John Lemp and RevContent's Bootstrapped Model Latka identifies the space by comparing RevContent directly to Outbrain and Taboola, then pushes Lemp to speak candidly when he hesitates. He also clarifies the business model as an ad marketplace rather than SaaS.4:38–9:42 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Debating Clickbait Yield Versus Long-Term User Trust Latka relentlessly challenges Lemp on the fundamental conflict between clickbait yield incentives and quality recommendations, citing Murdoch and Facebook's issues. Lemp pushes back by explaining RevContent's dual-sided quality score and attribution algorithm.9:42–12:40 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Hypothetical Monetization Shifts and Global Team Footprint Latka poses a hypothetical scenario where regulatory changes ban CPM/CPC advertising, prompting Lemp to explain his contingency shift to affiliate or content distribution models before sharing his global team headcount.12:42–15:08 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Analyzing RevContent's Bootstrapped Financial Metrics and Margins Latka runs quick mental math on head count burn and aggressively unpacks the difference between RevContent's reported $184M gross spend and their actual 20% take rate net margin.15:09–18:21 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Acquisition Philosophy and Resisting Big Tech Monopolies Latka cuts through Lemp's vague answer regarding business growth across different departments to demand specific top-line revenue growth percentages, leading into Lemp's argument against Big Tech monopolies.18:21–22:21 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Navigating Industry Competition and Eliminating Founder Ego Latka references Disqus' acquisition to bait an aggressive competitor response, calling out Lemp's diplomatic reply as fluffy before moving into a rapid-fire Famous Five round.0:49–4:37 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Introducing John Lemp and RevContent's Bootstrapped Model Latka identifies the space by comparing RevContent directly to Outbrain and Taboola, then pushes Lemp to speak candidly when he hesitates. He also clarifies the business model as an ad marketplace rather than SaaS.4:38–9:42 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Debating Clickbait Yield Versus Long-Term User Trust Latka relentlessly challenges Lemp on the fundamental conflict between clickbait yield incentives and quality recommendations, citing Murdoch and Facebook's issues. Lemp pushes back by explaining RevContent's dual-sided quality score and attribution algorithm.9:42–12:40 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Hypothetical Monetization Shifts and Global Team Footprint Latka poses a hypothetical scenario where regulatory changes ban CPM/CPC advertising, prompting Lemp to explain his contingency shift to affiliate or content distribution models before sharing his global team headcount.12:42–15:08 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Analyzing RevContent's Bootstrapped Financial Metrics and Margins Latka runs quick mental math on head count burn and aggressively unpacks the difference between RevContent's reported $184M gross spend and their actual 20% take rate net margin.15:09–18:21 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Acquisition Philosophy and Resisting Big Tech Monopolies Latka cuts through Lemp's vague answer regarding business growth across different departments to demand specific top-line revenue growth percentages, leading into Lemp's argument against Big Tech monopolies.18:21–22:21 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Navigating Industry Competition and Eliminating Founder Ego Latka references Disqus' acquisition to bait an aggressive competitor response, calling out Lemp's diplomatic reply as fluffy before moving into a rapid-fire Famous Five round.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 55.4% · guest 44.6%0:00 · Nathan 55.4% · guest 44.6%3:00 · Nathan 28.7% · guest 71.3%3:00 · Nathan 28.7% · guest 71.3%6:00 · Nathan 21.4% · guest 78.6%6:00 · Nathan 21.4% · guest 78.6%9:00 · Nathan 32.9% · guest 67.1%9:00 · Nathan 32.9% · guest 67.1%12:00 · Nathan 67.1% · guest 32.9%12:00 · Nathan 67.1% · guest 32.9%15:00 · Nathan 29.5% · guest 70.5%15:00 · Nathan 29.5% · guest 70.5%18:00 · Nathan 27.9% · guest 72.1%18:00 · Nathan 27.9% · guest 72.1%21:00 · Nathan 47.9% · guest 52.1%21:00 · Nathan 47.9% · guest 52.1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 4:58 Lemp disputes clickbait revenue logic

Lemp directly rejects Latka's premise that trashy shock-factor ads generate better yield, arguing that eliminating low-quality ads actually drove RevContent's RPMs up due to user trust.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 5:38 Latka challenges click-yield alignment

Latka refuses to accept Lemp's sanitized explanation, arguing forcefully that any marketplace incentivizing yield inevitably replicates Facebook's low-quality clickbait problem.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 6:01 Lemp details two-sided quality algorithm

Lemp educates Latka on how their algorithm balances immediate click-through rates with downstream user retention and quality attribution penalties.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 13:36 Latka unpacks gross spend vs net revenue

Latka cuts through inflated ad-tech vanity metrics by demonstrating his industry knowledge, forcing Lemp to admit the true net revenue take rate.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing John Lemp and RevContent's Bootstrapped Model 6335 Latka identifies the space by comparing RevContent directly to Outbrain and Taboola, then pushes Lemp to speak candidly when he hesitates. He also clarifies the business model as an ad marketplace rather than SaaS.
Debating Clickbait Yield Versus Long-Term User Trust 7448 Latka relentlessly challenges Lemp on the fundamental conflict between clickbait yield incentives and quality recommendations, citing Murdoch and Facebook's issues. Lemp pushes back by explaining RevContent's dual-sided quality score and attribution algorithm.
Hypothetical Monetization Shifts and Global Team Footprint 4224 Latka poses a hypothetical scenario where regulatory changes ban CPM/CPC advertising, prompting Lemp to explain his contingency shift to affiliate or content distribution models before sharing his global team headcount.
Analyzing RevContent's Bootstrapped Financial Metrics and Margins 8326 Latka runs quick mental math on head count burn and aggressively unpacks the difference between RevContent's reported $184M gross spend and their actual 20% take rate net margin.
Acquisition Philosophy and Resisting Big Tech Monopolies 6336 Latka cuts through Lemp's vague answer regarding business growth across different departments to demand specific top-line revenue growth percentages, leading into Lemp's argument against Big Tech monopolies.
Navigating Industry Competition and Eliminating Founder Ego 5335 Latka references Disqus' acquisition to bait an aggressive competitor response, calling out Lemp's diplomatic reply as fluffy before moving into a rapid-fire Famous Five round.

Statements from this episode (11)

Disclosure
Lemp: RevContent is bootstrapped all the way
“Yeah, we're bootstrapped all the way.”
John Lemp May 13, 2018 ▶ 1:23
Assertion Supported
Lemp: RevContent powers recommendation widgets for Inc, Newsweek, and CBS
“So, you know, typically you know, we work with sites like Inc, Fast Company Newsweek, CBS and we you know, if you look at the end of an article, you'll see recommended articles.”
John Lemp May 13, 2018 ▶ 1:35
Assertion Supported
Lemp: Facebook and Google Power 49% of Internet Advertising
“You have sites like Facebook, sites like Google. I mean, they're powering 49% of all internet advertising.”
John Lemp May 13, 2018 ▶ 2:45
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lemp: RevContent RPMs Rose After Removing Clickbait Ads
“We've you know, we've gotten rid of that type of content. You know, it's and as we got rid of it, our RPMs have continued to go up.”
John Lemp May 13, 2018 ▶ 5:02
Insight
Lemp: Running Clickbait Ads Degrades Long-Term User Clickability
“The more that you have those types of ads it actually loses your clickability.”
John Lemp May 13, 2018 ▶ 5:18
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lemp: Revcontent has been profitable since inception
“We've been profitable since the beginning.”
John Lemp May 13, 2018 ▶ 13:03
Assertion Partly supported
Lemp: Revcontent did $184 million in gross revenue in 2016
“So according to Inc, I mean, I can't share our current numbers, but according to Inc, we did a hundred and eighty four million last year.”
John Lemp May 13, 2018 ▶ 13:27
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lemp: Revcontent's take rate is typically over 20%
“Yeah, I would say it's typically, I mean, it's over 20%,”
John Lemp May 13, 2018 ▶ 14:16
Disclosure
Lemp: RevContent Acquires Founder Talent and Technology Over Market Share
“We're not really interested in a market share type type plays anymore. So it's like you know, I'd rather just out innovate somebody that's you know, and then you know, and take their market. It's like the when we talk about you know, we talk about I would say …”
John Lemp May 13, 2018 ▶ 15:12
Opinion
Lemp: Facebook Is World's Largest Monopoly and Threatens Open Internet
“We have the largest monopoly in the world with Facebook, and they're you know, and they will destroy the open internet if we don't stop them”
John Lemp May 13, 2018 ▶ 17:30
Opinion
John Lemp respects Breitbart CEO Larry Solove for challenging the establishment
“I have a lot of respect for Larry Solove of Breitbart. It's like you know, and taking on the establishment.”
John Lemp May 13, 2018 ▶ 20:20
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