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Jun 5, 2018 · 20m · top-founders

1046 She Controls WeWork TV Screens, Passes $4.8m ARR

Nathan Latka · 9m spoken Nancy Liu · 8m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs Podcast, host Nathan Latka interviews InPlug co-founder and CEO Nancy Liu on how she scaled her enterprise digital signage software company past $4.8 million in ARR. Liu breaks down InPlug's high-margin SaaS unit economics, international white-label distribution model, and her approach to running two active companies as a cash-flow positive founder.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 53.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 6.2 Guest teaching 2.0 Guest disagreement 1.2 Nathan pushing back 3.0
05100:0010:0020:000:49–3:41 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Introducing Nancy Liu and InPlug's Business Model Nathan clarifies InPlug's business model as a B2B SaaS enterprise play rather than consumer hardware. Nancy readily explains their pricing tier, average revenue per customer, and the bimodal distribution of screen counts.3:41–5:52 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Founding Origins and Capital Raising Across Ventures Nathan drills into the mechanics of Nancy running two distinct companies simultaneously and probes her funding structure, challenging how five million dollars was structured across convertible notes versus equity.5:53–8:17 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 International Franchise Expansion and Enterprise Architecture Nancy details how a chance encounter at a YPO conference led to an international franchise expansion model. Nathan verifies how P&L and custom feature engineering requests are ring-fenced.8:17–10:53 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Customer Traction, Partner Economics, and Content-Driven Growth Nathan runs the mental math on direct customer revenue versus international partner channels, calculating over four hundred thousand dollars in monthly recurring revenue. Nancy details their content-led inbound customer acquisition strategy.10:55–16:01 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Nathan Latka's Acquisition Spotlight: TheTopInbox.com Following an acquisition plug, Nathan engages in an intense round of questioning to untangle Nancy's cap table, repeatedly asking for clarification as her explanations shift between angel notes, priced rounds, and check sizes.16:01–18:11 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Retention Metrics, Customer Lifetime Value, and Productivity Nathan tests Nancy's definitions of net revenue churn versus logo churn and calculates customer lifetime value on the fly. Nancy explains her perspective on time allocation and operating multiple ventures.0:49–3:41 · Guest teaching 2/10 Introducing Nancy Liu and InPlug's Business Model Nathan clarifies InPlug's business model as a B2B SaaS enterprise play rather than consumer hardware. Nancy readily explains their pricing tier, average revenue per customer, and the bimodal distribution of screen counts.3:41–5:52 · Guest teaching 2/10 Founding Origins and Capital Raising Across Ventures Nathan drills into the mechanics of Nancy running two distinct companies simultaneously and probes her funding structure, challenging how five million dollars was structured across convertible notes versus equity.5:53–8:17 · Guest teaching 3/10 International Franchise Expansion and Enterprise Architecture Nancy details how a chance encounter at a YPO conference led to an international franchise expansion model. Nathan verifies how P&L and custom feature engineering requests are ring-fenced.8:17–10:53 · Guest teaching 1/10 Customer Traction, Partner Economics, and Content-Driven Growth Nathan runs the mental math on direct customer revenue versus international partner channels, calculating over four hundred thousand dollars in monthly recurring revenue. Nancy details their content-led inbound customer acquisition strategy.10:55–16:01 · Guest teaching 2/10 Nathan Latka's Acquisition Spotlight: TheTopInbox.com Following an acquisition plug, Nathan engages in an intense round of questioning to untangle Nancy's cap table, repeatedly asking for clarification as her explanations shift between angel notes, priced rounds, and check sizes.16:01–18:11 · Guest teaching 2/10 Retention Metrics, Customer Lifetime Value, and Productivity Nathan tests Nancy's definitions of net revenue churn versus logo churn and calculates customer lifetime value on the fly. Nancy explains her perspective on time allocation and operating multiple ventures.0:49–3:41 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Nancy Liu and InPlug's Business Model Nathan clarifies InPlug's business model as a B2B SaaS enterprise play rather than consumer hardware. Nancy readily explains their pricing tier, average revenue per customer, and the bimodal distribution of screen counts.3:41–5:52 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Founding Origins and Capital Raising Across Ventures Nathan drills into the mechanics of Nancy running two distinct companies simultaneously and probes her funding structure, challenging how five million dollars was structured across convertible notes versus equity.5:53–8:17 · Guest disagreement 1/10 International Franchise Expansion and Enterprise Architecture Nancy details how a chance encounter at a YPO conference led to an international franchise expansion model. Nathan verifies how P&L and custom feature engineering requests are ring-fenced.8:17–10:53 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Customer Traction, Partner Economics, and Content-Driven Growth Nathan runs the mental math on direct customer revenue versus international partner channels, calculating over four hundred thousand dollars in monthly recurring revenue. Nancy details their content-led inbound customer acquisition strategy.10:55–16:01 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Nathan Latka's Acquisition Spotlight: TheTopInbox.com Following an acquisition plug, Nathan engages in an intense round of questioning to untangle Nancy's cap table, repeatedly asking for clarification as her explanations shift between angel notes, priced rounds, and check sizes.16:01–18:11 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Retention Metrics, Customer Lifetime Value, and Productivity Nathan tests Nancy's definitions of net revenue churn versus logo churn and calculates customer lifetime value on the fly. Nancy explains her perspective on time allocation and operating multiple ventures.0:49–3:41 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Nancy Liu and InPlug's Business Model Nathan clarifies InPlug's business model as a B2B SaaS enterprise play rather than consumer hardware. Nancy readily explains their pricing tier, average revenue per customer, and the bimodal distribution of screen counts.3:41–5:52 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Founding Origins and Capital Raising Across Ventures Nathan drills into the mechanics of Nancy running two distinct companies simultaneously and probes her funding structure, challenging how five million dollars was structured across convertible notes versus equity.5:53–8:17 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 International Franchise Expansion and Enterprise Architecture Nancy details how a chance encounter at a YPO conference led to an international franchise expansion model. Nathan verifies how P&L and custom feature engineering requests are ring-fenced.8:17–10:53 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Customer Traction, Partner Economics, and Content-Driven Growth Nathan runs the mental math on direct customer revenue versus international partner channels, calculating over four hundred thousand dollars in monthly recurring revenue. Nancy details their content-led inbound customer acquisition strategy.10:55–16:01 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Nathan Latka's Acquisition Spotlight: TheTopInbox.com Following an acquisition plug, Nathan engages in an intense round of questioning to untangle Nancy's cap table, repeatedly asking for clarification as her explanations shift between angel notes, priced rounds, and check sizes.16:01–18:11 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Retention Metrics, Customer Lifetime Value, and Productivity Nathan tests Nancy's definitions of net revenue churn versus logo churn and calculates customer lifetime value on the fly. Nancy explains her perspective on time allocation and operating multiple ventures.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 63.7% · guest 36.3%0:00 · Nathan 63.7% · guest 36.3%3:00 · Nathan 29.9% · guest 70.1%3:00 · Nathan 29.9% · guest 70.1%6:00 · Nathan 34.5% · guest 65.5%6:00 · Nathan 34.5% · guest 65.5%9:00 · Nathan 59.8% · guest 40.2%9:00 · Nathan 59.8% · guest 40.2%12:00 · Nathan 62.1% · guest 37.9%12:00 · Nathan 62.1% · guest 37.9%15:00 · Nathan 57.4% · guest 42.6%15:00 · Nathan 57.4% · guest 42.6%18:00 · Nathan 70.5% · guest 29.5%18:00 · Nathan 70.5% · guest 29.5%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:03 Clarifying seed check history

Nancy resists Nathan's framing of a standard institutional seed round, correcting him that their funding came in piecemeal through individual angel notes starting with a dentist.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 14:03 Nathan halts dialogue to resolve confusion

Nathan directly stops Nancy to point out conflicting statements regarding whether the company raised five hundred thousand dollars or single large checks, insisting on clarity.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 6:22 Explaining the white-label franchise mechanism

Nancy explains how InPlug offloaded regional sales overhead and office leases to local enterprise executives by white-labeling the software platform.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 15:04 Nathan summarizes cap table risks

Nathan demonstrates his financial acumen by synthesizing the messy reality of managing six different convertible note terms from individual angels into a coherent summary.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Nancy Liu and InPlug's Business Model 6212 Nathan clarifies InPlug's business model as a B2B SaaS enterprise play rather than consumer hardware. Nancy readily explains their pricing tier, average revenue per customer, and the bimodal distribution of screen counts.
Founding Origins and Capital Raising Across Ventures 6214 Nathan drills into the mechanics of Nancy running two distinct companies simultaneously and probes her funding structure, challenging how five million dollars was structured across convertible notes versus equity.
International Franchise Expansion and Enterprise Architecture 5311 Nancy details how a chance encounter at a YPO conference led to an international franchise expansion model. Nathan verifies how P&L and custom feature engineering requests are ring-fenced.
Customer Traction, Partner Economics, and Content-Driven Growth 6111 Nathan runs the mental math on direct customer revenue versus international partner channels, calculating over four hundred thousand dollars in monthly recurring revenue. Nancy details their content-led inbound customer acquisition strategy.
Nathan Latka's Acquisition Spotlight: TheTopInbox.com 7227 Following an acquisition plug, Nathan engages in an intense round of questioning to untangle Nancy's cap table, repeatedly asking for clarification as her explanations shift between angel notes, priced rounds, and check sizes.
Retention Metrics, Customer Lifetime Value, and Productivity 7213 Nathan tests Nancy's definitions of net revenue churn versus logo churn and calculates customer lifetime value on the fly. Nancy explains her perspective on time allocation and operating multiple ventures.

Statements from this episode (16)

Assertion Partly supported
Enplug powers all office screens across WeWork locations
“That's all us. All the WeWork screens you see, we power those screens we love. We work as a client.”
Nancy Liu Jun 5, 2018 ▶ 1:53
Assertion Not checkable as stated
The average Enplug customer pays $400 per month
“Typically our average customer is paying us 400 dollars per month.”
Nancy Liu Jun 5, 2018 ▶ 2:44
Disclosure
Enplug operates with 100% inbound sales and zero outbound
“Everything we do is inbound. So we actually don't even do external sales call. All of our sales folks are inside sales.”
Nancy Liu Jun 5, 2018 ▶ 3:11
Insight
SMB clients take just as long to close as large enterprises
“So for the smaller businesses, they actually typically take just as much time to close the larger businesses.”
Nancy Liu Jun 5, 2018 ▶ 3:21
Disclosure
Nanoly Bioscience has raised a couple million dollars mostly in non-dilutive grants
“So to date we've raised a couple million dollars, and most of it actually non-diluted funding.”
Nancy Liu Jun 5, 2018 ▶ 4:01
Disclosure
Enplug has raised $5 million in total capital
“We've raised money, so we've raised a total of five million dollars.”
Nancy Liu Jun 5, 2018 ▶ 4:35
Disclosure
Enplug operates franchise offices in Brazil, Australia, Japan, and the UK
“So we have offices in Sao Paulo, Brazil Melbourne, Australia, Tokyo, Japan, and UK.”
Nancy Liu Jun 5, 2018 ▶ 6:02
Disclosure
Enplug provides white-label branding for clients like WeWork and Marriott
“Cause a lot of our customers want to have these enterprise features that are, you know, instead of saying powered by in plug with most of our screens say, you can have the option of saying, you know, powered by we work or powered by Marriott.”
Nancy Liu Jun 5, 2018 ▶ 7:41
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Enplug reaches over 1,000 direct software customers
“Yeah, so we have over a thousand companies using our software.”
Nancy Liu Jun 5, 2018 ▶ 8:21
Disclosure
Enplug spends roughly $500 monthly on Google AdWords
“So we spend maybe only like now, 500 dollars on Google AdWords per month.”
Nancy Liu Jun 5, 2018 ▶ 10:36
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Enplug's fully weighted customer acquisition cost is around $1,100
“So the CAC ends up being around 1100 dollars per customer, new customer.”
Nancy Liu Jun 5, 2018 ▶ 12:19
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Enplug reached cash-flow positive in 2016 with a founder-only board
“So it's kind of interesting because so we raised this one round of funding and then we became cashflow positive two years ago. And so the board is actually just myself and my two co-founders.”
Nancy Liu Jun 5, 2018 ▶ 12:41
Insight
Liu advises founders against stacking multiple unconverted rolling notes
“Which is tricky, and I would not recommend it for other folks, which is why when I raised my money for the biotech company afterwards, we only took in one investor.”
Nancy Liu Jun 5, 2018 ▶ 14:56
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Enplug experiences a monthly net revenue churn of roughly 1.2%
“It's about 1.2% per month.”
Nancy Liu Jun 5, 2018 ▶ 16:06
Insight
Founders rarely have more than 50 productive hours weekly per company
“And oftentimes I don't think there are more than really like 40 or 50 hours of productive hours per week for a single company. And so I don't actually need to sleep that much. So I have a lot of extra hours that I can just divide between multiple things.”
Nancy Liu Jun 5, 2018 ▶ 17:19
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Enplug customers typically retain their subscriptions for four to five years
“So the average lifetime customer value so typically the customer will stay according, just based on churn about four to five years or more.”
Nancy Liu Jun 5, 2018 ▶ 17:44
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