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Jun 11, 2018 · 21m · top-founders

1052 You're doing $9m in ARR, why write a book decoding creativity?

Alan Gannett · 12m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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TrackMaven founder Alan Gannett joins Nathan Latka to break down how his venture-backed marketing analytics SaaS scaled to $9 million in ARR while detailing the scientific research and actionable habits behind his book, 'The Creative Curve.'

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 36.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 3.8 Guest teaching 4.0 Guest disagreement 3.2 Nathan pushing back 4.2
05100:0010:0020:002:01–6:27 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 TrackMaven Business Model, Customer Metrics, and Funding Nathan extracts core business metrics before forcefully challenging the title and premise of Alan's book, arguing that a standardized creative process eliminates actual creativity. Alan immediately pushes back, disagreeing with Nathan's premise and explaining how diverse ingredient consumption drives novel output.6:28–9:18 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Science of Creativity, IQ Potential, and Four Genius Habits Alan breaks down scientific research on creativity, explaining that anyone with an IQ above 104 possesses equal creative potential. When Nathan asks how creativity is quantified, Alan schools him on psychometric divergent thinking tests.9:21–13:04 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Sponsor Break: Nathan Latka Highlights ProsperWorks CRM Following a sponsor read, Alan details the first two genius habits: heavy content consumption and deliberate imitation, illustrating his point with Benjamin Franklin's structural reverse-engineering method.13:05–15:51 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Applying Whimsical Branding and the Corgi Mascot to B2B SaaS Alan explains how TrackMaven's Corgi mascot drove mid-market brand awareness, but Nathan pushes back skeptically, questioning if cute branding depresses contract values. Alan counters that their target marketing audience values creative branding and their ACV has continually climbed.15:51–19:40 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Book Launch Strategy, Sales Goals, and Entrepreneurial Focus Nathan uses Alan's customer and ACV metrics to calculate an ARR of $9M and poses a hypothetical $60M acquisition offer, refusing to accept Alan's flat refusal to sell. Alan defends his focus on impact, learning, and future plans over pure monetary gain.19:41–21:17 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Alan Gannett In the rapid-fire round, Nathan and Alan trade playful banter when Nathan accuses Alan of angling for business after Alan mentions Nick Mehta of Gainsight.2:01–6:27 · Guest teaching 4/10 TrackMaven Business Model, Customer Metrics, and Funding Nathan extracts core business metrics before forcefully challenging the title and premise of Alan's book, arguing that a standardized creative process eliminates actual creativity. Alan immediately pushes back, disagreeing with Nathan's premise and explaining how diverse ingredient consumption drives novel output.6:28–9:18 · Guest teaching 6/10 Science of Creativity, IQ Potential, and Four Genius Habits Alan breaks down scientific research on creativity, explaining that anyone with an IQ above 104 possesses equal creative potential. When Nathan asks how creativity is quantified, Alan schools him on psychometric divergent thinking tests.9:21–13:04 · Guest teaching 5/10 Sponsor Break: Nathan Latka Highlights ProsperWorks CRM Following a sponsor read, Alan details the first two genius habits: heavy content consumption and deliberate imitation, illustrating his point with Benjamin Franklin's structural reverse-engineering method.13:05–15:51 · Guest teaching 4/10 Applying Whimsical Branding and the Corgi Mascot to B2B SaaS Alan explains how TrackMaven's Corgi mascot drove mid-market brand awareness, but Nathan pushes back skeptically, questioning if cute branding depresses contract values. Alan counters that their target marketing audience values creative branding and their ACV has continually climbed.15:51–19:40 · Guest teaching 3/10 Book Launch Strategy, Sales Goals, and Entrepreneurial Focus Nathan uses Alan's customer and ACV metrics to calculate an ARR of $9M and poses a hypothetical $60M acquisition offer, refusing to accept Alan's flat refusal to sell. Alan defends his focus on impact, learning, and future plans over pure monetary gain.19:41–21:17 · Guest teaching 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Alan Gannett In the rapid-fire round, Nathan and Alan trade playful banter when Nathan accuses Alan of angling for business after Alan mentions Nick Mehta of Gainsight.2:01–6:27 · Guest disagreement 5/10 TrackMaven Business Model, Customer Metrics, and Funding Nathan extracts core business metrics before forcefully challenging the title and premise of Alan's book, arguing that a standardized creative process eliminates actual creativity. Alan immediately pushes back, disagreeing with Nathan's premise and explaining how diverse ingredient consumption drives novel output.6:28–9:18 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Science of Creativity, IQ Potential, and Four Genius Habits Alan breaks down scientific research on creativity, explaining that anyone with an IQ above 104 possesses equal creative potential. When Nathan asks how creativity is quantified, Alan schools him on psychometric divergent thinking tests.9:21–13:04 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sponsor Break: Nathan Latka Highlights ProsperWorks CRM Following a sponsor read, Alan details the first two genius habits: heavy content consumption and deliberate imitation, illustrating his point with Benjamin Franklin's structural reverse-engineering method.13:05–15:51 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Applying Whimsical Branding and the Corgi Mascot to B2B SaaS Alan explains how TrackMaven's Corgi mascot drove mid-market brand awareness, but Nathan pushes back skeptically, questioning if cute branding depresses contract values. Alan counters that their target marketing audience values creative branding and their ACV has continually climbed.15:51–19:40 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Book Launch Strategy, Sales Goals, and Entrepreneurial Focus Nathan uses Alan's customer and ACV metrics to calculate an ARR of $9M and poses a hypothetical $60M acquisition offer, refusing to accept Alan's flat refusal to sell. Alan defends his focus on impact, learning, and future plans over pure monetary gain.19:41–21:17 · Guest disagreement 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Alan Gannett In the rapid-fire round, Nathan and Alan trade playful banter when Nathan accuses Alan of angling for business after Alan mentions Nick Mehta of Gainsight.2:01–6:27 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 TrackMaven Business Model, Customer Metrics, and Funding Nathan extracts core business metrics before forcefully challenging the title and premise of Alan's book, arguing that a standardized creative process eliminates actual creativity. Alan immediately pushes back, disagreeing with Nathan's premise and explaining how diverse ingredient consumption drives novel output.6:28–9:18 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Science of Creativity, IQ Potential, and Four Genius Habits Alan breaks down scientific research on creativity, explaining that anyone with an IQ above 104 possesses equal creative potential. When Nathan asks how creativity is quantified, Alan schools him on psychometric divergent thinking tests.9:21–13:04 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Sponsor Break: Nathan Latka Highlights ProsperWorks CRM Following a sponsor read, Alan details the first two genius habits: heavy content consumption and deliberate imitation, illustrating his point with Benjamin Franklin's structural reverse-engineering method.13:05–15:51 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Applying Whimsical Branding and the Corgi Mascot to B2B SaaS Alan explains how TrackMaven's Corgi mascot drove mid-market brand awareness, but Nathan pushes back skeptically, questioning if cute branding depresses contract values. Alan counters that their target marketing audience values creative branding and their ACV has continually climbed.15:51–19:40 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Book Launch Strategy, Sales Goals, and Entrepreneurial Focus Nathan uses Alan's customer and ACV metrics to calculate an ARR of $9M and poses a hypothetical $60M acquisition offer, refusing to accept Alan's flat refusal to sell. Alan defends his focus on impact, learning, and future plans over pure monetary gain.19:41–21:17 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Alan Gannett In the rapid-fire round, Nathan and Alan trade playful banter when Nathan accuses Alan of angling for business after Alan mentions Nick Mehta of Gainsight.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 53.9% · guest 46.1%0:00 · Nathan 53.9% · guest 46.1%3:00 · Nathan 39.7% · guest 60.3%3:00 · Nathan 39.7% · guest 60.3%6:00 · Nathan 10.5% · guest 89.5%6:00 · Nathan 10.5% · guest 89.5%9:00 · Nathan 49.1% · guest 50.9%9:00 · Nathan 49.1% · guest 50.9%12:00 · Nathan 18.6% · guest 81.4%12:00 · Nathan 18.6% · guest 81.4%15:00 · Nathan 42.6% · guest 57.4%15:00 · Nathan 42.6% · guest 57.4%18:00 · Nathan 35.2% · guest 64.8%18:00 · Nathan 35.2% · guest 64.8%21:00 · Nathan 77.5% · guest 22.5%21:00 · Nathan 77.5% · guest 22.5%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 5:28 Alan rejects Nathan's assembly-line premise

Alan directly rejects Nathan's criticism by stating 'I disagree with the premise of your question' and explaining how multivariate creative inputs prevent repetitive output.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 5:10 Nathan attacks the book title and process premise

Nathan bluntly tells Alan 'I hate the title' and argues that teaching a standardized process turns creative production into an assembly line where nothing is original.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 7:49 Alan explains creativity measurement tools

When Nathan expresses confusion over measuring creative potential, Alan educates him on psychometrics, the study of greatness, and divergent thinking tests.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 18:40 Nathan estimates $9M ARR and challenges exit denial

Nathan synthesizes previously mentioned metrics to deduce a $9M ARR valuation and instantly calls bluff on Alan when he claims he would decline a $60M acquisition.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
TrackMaven Business Model, Customer Metrics, and Funding 5456 Nathan extracts core business metrics before forcefully challenging the title and premise of Alan's book, arguing that a standardized creative process eliminates actual creativity. Alan immediately pushes back, disagreeing with Nathan's premise and explaining how diverse ingredient consumption drives novel output.
Science of Creativity, IQ Potential, and Four Genius Habits 2622 Alan breaks down scientific research on creativity, explaining that anyone with an IQ above 104 possesses equal creative potential. When Nathan asks how creativity is quantified, Alan schools him on psychometric divergent thinking tests.
Sponsor Break: Nathan Latka Highlights ProsperWorks CRM 2511 Following a sponsor read, Alan details the first two genius habits: heavy content consumption and deliberate imitation, illustrating his point with Benjamin Franklin's structural reverse-engineering method.
Applying Whimsical Branding and the Corgi Mascot to B2B SaaS 5446 Alan explains how TrackMaven's Corgi mascot drove mid-market brand awareness, but Nathan pushes back skeptically, questioning if cute branding depresses contract values. Alan counters that their target marketing audience values creative branding and their ACV has continually climbed.
Book Launch Strategy, Sales Goals, and Entrepreneurial Focus 6346 Nathan uses Alan's customer and ACV metrics to calculate an ARR of $9M and poses a hypothetical $60M acquisition offer, refusing to accept Alan's flat refusal to sell. Alan defends his focus on impact, learning, and future plans over pure monetary gain.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Alan Gannett 3234 In the rapid-fire round, Nathan and Alan trade playful banter when Nathan accuses Alan of angling for business after Alan mentions Nick Mehta of Gainsight.

Statements from this episode (12)

Insight
Gannett: Writing a book helps martech companies connect with customers
“So I think in marketing technology, it's a really great way to be able to tell a deeper story and actually connect with our customers.”
Alan Gannett Jun 11, 2018 ▶ 1:41
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Gannett: TrackMaven serves 330 customers
“We have 330 customers.”
Alan Gannett Jun 11, 2018 ▶ 2:46
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Gannett: TrackMaven's average annual customer contract is $25k to $30k
“No, it's a it's based on the number of channels that we ingest for them, and so are we bringing in paid ad data, social data, you know, earned media data, and so the average customer is paying us about 25 to 30,000 dollars.”
Alan Gannett Jun 11, 2018 ▶ 3:08
Assertion Supported
Gannett: TrackMaven has raised $22 million in total funding
“Twenty-two million.”
Alan Gannett Jun 11, 2018 ▶ 3:51
Insight
Gannett: Top Creators Treat Creativity as a Methodical Process, Not Luck
“When you actually talk to some of the best creators, what they'll tell you is that creativity is a process, and so the book is all about closing that gap, right? If the people who are best at this actually say, It's the most methodical. The people who are the …”
Alan Gannett Jun 11, 2018 ▶ 4:38
Assertion Partly supported
Gannett: Everyone with an IQ over 104 has equal creative potential
“The science tells us is that everyone with an IQ over a 104 has the same creative potential. That's over 40% of the entire world.”
Alan Gannett Jun 11, 2018 ▶ 7:35
Insight
Gannett: Top creative performers spend three to four hours daily consuming content
“I'm interviewing people who are at the top of their fields and over and over again, even to this day, they spend on average three to four hours every single day consuming content related to their vertical.”
Alan Gannett Jun 11, 2018 ▶ 10:53
Insight
Gannett: Creative mastery requires actively imitating and outlining established works
“You find all these creators. They're not just consuming content. They're imitating it. A lot of them will outline if they're a novelist, they'll outline their favorite novelist books.”
Alan Gannett Jun 11, 2018 ▶ 12:39
Insight
Gannett: B2B companies selling to marketers must prove superior brand marketing
“What we find is that we're selling to marketers, right? So marketers like the fact that we're good marketers. We tell stories, we know, understand brand, you know, some of the other analytics companies out there, they have these very barren websites and yet th…”
Alan Gannett Jun 11, 2018 ▶ 15:28
Disclosure
Gannett would reject a $60 million acquisition offer for TrackMaven
“No.”
Alan Gannett Jun 11, 2018 ▶ 18:48
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Gannett: Enterprise Marketers Are Shifting Budget From Agencies to SaaS
“And right now we're at a time where everyone's, you know, taking money away from their market agency and they're starting to, you know, hire companies like us.”
Alan Gannett Jun 11, 2018 ▶ 19:24
Insight
Gannett: Selling a business is hardest when acquirers actually want it
“When things, when the goings, when everything's good, it's sort of it's hard to sell. And obviously that's also the time when people want to buy you. So it's a bit of a conundrum.”
Alan Gannett Jun 11, 2018 ▶ 19:32
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