StarZero All shows Try the podcast clipper →

Jul 11, 2018 · 21m · top-founders

1082 Why Public Sizmek Went Private to Fuel Growth via M&A in Buy Side Programmatic Space

Mark Grether · 12m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Host Nathan Latka interviews Sizmek CEO Mark Grether on the company's decision to transition from public markets to private equity to execute large-scale programmatic ad tech acquisitions. Grether details Sizmek's unified buy-side tech stack, SaaS business model, and long-term strategy to provide a transparent, independent alternative to Google and Facebook.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 35% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.8 Guest teaching 3.0 Guest disagreement 1.8 Nathan pushing back 2.7
05100:0010:0020:000:49–4:30 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Introducing Mark Grether and Sizmek's Global Scale Nathan demonstrates solid industry background by citing competitor models like Bill Wise at Mediaocean and specific acquisition metrics for Rocket Fuel ($2.50/share, ~$145M valuation). Mark elaborates smoothly on their SaaS model and AI integration.4:30–8:23 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Rate Card Transparency and the Dedicated Service Organization Mark educates Nathan on why independent ad servers cannot own media, using the analogy of grading your own homework to explain conflict of interest in programmatic advertising. Nathan asks for clarification when Mark introduces the concept.8:23–12:01 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Building an Independent Competitor to Google and Facebook Mark details Sizmek's strategic position as an independent alternative to the walled gardens of Google and Facebook. The segment is largely collaborative and includes a host mid-roll ad read.12:09–15:23 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 The Strategic Advantage of Taking Sizmek Private Nathan challenges Mark on taking the company private by questioning the loss of stock currency, and subsequently pushes for year-over-year growth figures. Mark deflects the revenue question, emphasizing a five-year strategic horizon over quarterly reporting, prompting Nathan to cite their last reported public revenue figures.15:23–18:53 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Acquisition Philosophy and Blockchain's Impact on Ad Tech Nathan raises a technical hurdle regarding blockchain transaction speed limitations versus high-velocity programmatic bidding. Mark details the need for consumer data transparency, and Nathan validates the point by sharing his own data sovereignty testing.18:54–21:22 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion Nathan conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five round, briefly misnaming Mark as Eric before Mark shares personal routines and career advice.0:49–4:30 · Guest teaching 2/10 Introducing Mark Grether and Sizmek's Global Scale Nathan demonstrates solid industry background by citing competitor models like Bill Wise at Mediaocean and specific acquisition metrics for Rocket Fuel ($2.50/share, ~$145M valuation). Mark elaborates smoothly on their SaaS model and AI integration.4:30–8:23 · Guest teaching 6/10 Rate Card Transparency and the Dedicated Service Organization Mark educates Nathan on why independent ad servers cannot own media, using the analogy of grading your own homework to explain conflict of interest in programmatic advertising. Nathan asks for clarification when Mark introduces the concept.8:23–12:01 · Guest teaching 2/10 Building an Independent Competitor to Google and Facebook Mark details Sizmek's strategic position as an independent alternative to the walled gardens of Google and Facebook. The segment is largely collaborative and includes a host mid-roll ad read.12:09–15:23 · Guest teaching 3/10 The Strategic Advantage of Taking Sizmek Private Nathan challenges Mark on taking the company private by questioning the loss of stock currency, and subsequently pushes for year-over-year growth figures. Mark deflects the revenue question, emphasizing a five-year strategic horizon over quarterly reporting, prompting Nathan to cite their last reported public revenue figures.15:23–18:53 · Guest teaching 4/10 Acquisition Philosophy and Blockchain's Impact on Ad Tech Nathan raises a technical hurdle regarding blockchain transaction speed limitations versus high-velocity programmatic bidding. Mark details the need for consumer data transparency, and Nathan validates the point by sharing his own data sovereignty testing.18:54–21:22 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion Nathan conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five round, briefly misnaming Mark as Eric before Mark shares personal routines and career advice.0:49–4:30 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Mark Grether and Sizmek's Global Scale Nathan demonstrates solid industry background by citing competitor models like Bill Wise at Mediaocean and specific acquisition metrics for Rocket Fuel ($2.50/share, ~$145M valuation). Mark elaborates smoothly on their SaaS model and AI integration.4:30–8:23 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Rate Card Transparency and the Dedicated Service Organization Mark educates Nathan on why independent ad servers cannot own media, using the analogy of grading your own homework to explain conflict of interest in programmatic advertising. Nathan asks for clarification when Mark introduces the concept.8:23–12:01 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Building an Independent Competitor to Google and Facebook Mark details Sizmek's strategic position as an independent alternative to the walled gardens of Google and Facebook. The segment is largely collaborative and includes a host mid-roll ad read.12:09–15:23 · Guest disagreement 4/10 The Strategic Advantage of Taking Sizmek Private Nathan challenges Mark on taking the company private by questioning the loss of stock currency, and subsequently pushes for year-over-year growth figures. Mark deflects the revenue question, emphasizing a five-year strategic horizon over quarterly reporting, prompting Nathan to cite their last reported public revenue figures.15:23–18:53 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Acquisition Philosophy and Blockchain's Impact on Ad Tech Nathan raises a technical hurdle regarding blockchain transaction speed limitations versus high-velocity programmatic bidding. Mark details the need for consumer data transparency, and Nathan validates the point by sharing his own data sovereignty testing.18:54–21:22 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion Nathan conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five round, briefly misnaming Mark as Eric before Mark shares personal routines and career advice.0:49–4:30 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Mark Grether and Sizmek's Global Scale Nathan demonstrates solid industry background by citing competitor models like Bill Wise at Mediaocean and specific acquisition metrics for Rocket Fuel ($2.50/share, ~$145M valuation). Mark elaborates smoothly on their SaaS model and AI integration.4:30–8:23 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Rate Card Transparency and the Dedicated Service Organization Mark educates Nathan on why independent ad servers cannot own media, using the analogy of grading your own homework to explain conflict of interest in programmatic advertising. Nathan asks for clarification when Mark introduces the concept.8:23–12:01 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Building an Independent Competitor to Google and Facebook Mark details Sizmek's strategic position as an independent alternative to the walled gardens of Google and Facebook. The segment is largely collaborative and includes a host mid-roll ad read.12:09–15:23 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 The Strategic Advantage of Taking Sizmek Private Nathan challenges Mark on taking the company private by questioning the loss of stock currency, and subsequently pushes for year-over-year growth figures. Mark deflects the revenue question, emphasizing a five-year strategic horizon over quarterly reporting, prompting Nathan to cite their last reported public revenue figures.15:23–18:53 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Acquisition Philosophy and Blockchain's Impact on Ad Tech Nathan raises a technical hurdle regarding blockchain transaction speed limitations versus high-velocity programmatic bidding. Mark details the need for consumer data transparency, and Nathan validates the point by sharing his own data sovereignty testing.18:54–21:22 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion Nathan conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five round, briefly misnaming Mark as Eric before Mark shares personal routines and career advice.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 49.3% · guest 50.7%0:00 · Nathan 49.3% · guest 50.7%3:00 · Nathan 16.5% · guest 83.5%3:00 · Nathan 16.5% · guest 83.5%6:00 · Nathan 16.6% · guest 83.4%6:00 · Nathan 16.6% · guest 83.4%9:00 · Nathan 55.9% · guest 44.1%9:00 · Nathan 55.9% · guest 44.1%12:00 · Nathan 21.1% · guest 78.9%12:00 · Nathan 21.1% · guest 78.9%15:00 · Nathan 25.8% · guest 74.2%15:00 · Nathan 25.8% · guest 74.2%18:00 · Nathan 55.6% · guest 44.4%18:00 · Nathan 55.6% · guest 44.4%21:00 · Nathan 95.5% · guest 4.5%21:00 · Nathan 95.5% · guest 4.5%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:04 Mark refuses short-term growth framing

Mark explicitly dismisses Nathan's attempt to get month-over-month or year-over-year growth metrics, rejecting the quarterly performance framing in favor of a multi-year value horizon.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 13:07 Nathan challenges going private due to lost stock currency

Nathan directly challenges Mark's premise that M&A rollups are easier private by countering that going private strips the company of its public stock currency.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 7:08 Mark explains why ad servers cannot own media

Mark clearly breaks down the structural mechanics of ad tech, explaining to Nathan that ad servers act as third-party verification and cannot own media without creating an inherent conflict of interest.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 16:10 Nathan highlights blockchain transaction velocity bottleneck

Nathan demonstrates technical domain expertise by identifying the fundamental mismatch between blockchain's slow transaction throughput and programmatic advertising's requirement for billions of high-velocity bid requests.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Mark Grether and Sizmek's Global Scale 6212 Nathan demonstrates solid industry background by citing competitor models like Bill Wise at Mediaocean and specific acquisition metrics for Rocket Fuel ($2.50/share, ~$145M valuation). Mark elaborates smoothly on their SaaS model and AI integration.
Rate Card Transparency and the Dedicated Service Organization 4623 Mark educates Nathan on why independent ad servers cannot own media, using the analogy of grading your own homework to explain conflict of interest in programmatic advertising. Nathan asks for clarification when Mark introduces the concept.
Building an Independent Competitor to Google and Facebook 3211 Mark details Sizmek's strategic position as an independent alternative to the walled gardens of Google and Facebook. The segment is largely collaborative and includes a host mid-roll ad read.
The Strategic Advantage of Taking Sizmek Private 6346 Nathan challenges Mark on taking the company private by questioning the loss of stock currency, and subsequently pushes for year-over-year growth figures. Mark deflects the revenue question, emphasizing a five-year strategic horizon over quarterly reporting, prompting Nathan to cite their last reported public revenue figures.
Acquisition Philosophy and Blockchain's Impact on Ad Tech 7423 Nathan raises a technical hurdle regarding blockchain transaction speed limitations versus high-velocity programmatic bidding. Mark details the need for consumer data transparency, and Nathan validates the point by sharing his own data sovereignty testing.
The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion 3111 Nathan conducts the standard rapid-fire Famous Five round, briefly misnaming Mark as Eric before Mark shares personal routines and career advice.

Statements from this episode (9)

Assertion Partly supported
Mark Grether: Sizmek is the largest independent global buy-side ad platform
“We acquired Rocket Fuel. We combined both businesses, Seismic and Rocket Fuel, under the Seismic brand, and now we are the largest independent bi-fi platform for advertisers and agencies with about 1600 employees globally.”
Mark Grether Jul 11, 2018 ▶ 1:27
Insight
Advertisers want integrated platforms instead of stitched-together ad tech stacks
“What they really want to have is one platform that they can use to do everything in one single stack, right? They don't want to have a Frankenstein, Any longer where they have to stitch things together, they really truly won't have a one platform, which is sim…”
Mark Grether Jul 11, 2018 ▶ 3:34
Insight
Operating an ad server and media business creates inherent conflicts of interest
“If you are now also a publisher, if you're also running a media business, you would actually measure yourself. And it's obviously a conflict of interest, which you cannot go with.”
Mark Grether Jul 11, 2018 ▶ 7:28
Opinion
Advertisers urgently need independent alternatives to Google and Facebook
“Advertisers and agencies, they need an alternative to Google, right? They need an alternative to Google and Facebook, and there won't be many alternatives.”
Mark Grether Jul 11, 2018 ▶ 9:06
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Mark Grether predicts Sizmek will be the only global competitor to DoubleClick
“I think we are on a good path to establish ourselves as the only one who can truly compete with the Doubled League stack at global scale.”
Mark Grether Jul 11, 2018 ▶ 10:09
Disclosure
Sizmek intentionally went private to execute an ad tech ecosystem roll-up
“So, we started a conversation when Seismic was still public, but with the knowledge that we want to actually take it private, and then we actually want to do the roll-up with other players in the ecosystem, and you can actually do that Much more easily in a no…”
Mark Grether Jul 11, 2018 ▶ 12:52
Insight
Quarterly reporting forces short-term focus, harming long-term M&A integrations
“The reason is that bringing companies together, right, and forming a new business model just takes time, right? So if you actually have to report and justify yourself every quarter, you're much more short-term focused.”
Mark Grether Jul 11, 2018 ▶ 13:11
Disclosure
Sizmek acquires technology in emerging markets and relationships in core ones
“On the one hand, there are new opportunities. Again, I mentioned programmatic TV where we might be more looking into the talent and the technology, right? And then there are other areas where we already have a good footprint and therefore maybe we look more in…”
Mark Grether Jul 11, 2018 ▶ 15:42
Insight
Ad industry focuses on inputs because output remains too difficult to measure
“We focus as an industry too much on the input rather than on the output. And one of the reasons is that we just have a struggle to measure output, and the better we become in measuring the output, the more we can actually attach re-numerations and compensation…”
Mark Grether Jul 11, 2018 ▶ 17:09
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 2,600 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.

Try the podcast clipper Learn more