Aug 23, 2018 · 20m · top-founders

1125 He's Sold $5m+ Of Magical Pad w/ 1,014 Needles Athletes Use to Kill Pain

Brad Smith · 10m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this interview on The Top Entrepreneurs Podcast, BioWave founder Brad Smith explains how he engineered and commercialized an FDA-cleared non-opioid pain relief medical device, scaling it across ninety professional sports teams and dozens of VA hospitals to surpass $5 million in annual revenue.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 41.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.5 Guest teaching 4.5 Guest disagreement 1.5 Nathan pushing back 3.2
05100:0010:0020:001:33–5:03 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Introducing Founder Brad Smith and BioWave Nathan asks foundational questions about the physical form factor and compares it simplistically to a massage chair. Brad patiently educates him on the neuro-electrical mechanism that blocks pain signals similarly to chemical Novocaine.5:03–7:36 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Hardware Pricing and Consumable Electrode Economics Nathan demonstrates strong business acumen by quickly calculating upfront hardware sales alongside recurring consumable electrode revenue across NFL teams. Brad provides specific unit pricing and replacement frequency numbers.7:37–10:00 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Market Demographics and Institutional Credibility Brad explains that pro sports accounts serve primarily as marketing credibility while workers' comp and hospitals drive true scale. Nathan probes the $6M pre-revenue fundraising journey, jokingly characterizing early prototype testing on investors' families.10:00–13:52 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Scaling Hardware Distribution Across VA Hospitals Nathan reacts skeptically to the concept of a 1,014-needle electrode pad, pressing Brad on why patients would accept it. Brad schools Nathan on the physics of bypassing skin impedance and the lucrative insurance reimbursement economics behind $150 single-use pads.13:52–17:23 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Building a National Sales Force and Capital Expansion When Brad attempts to demur on revenue figures citing private company status, Nathan pushes back firmly and secures confirmation that the business will cross $5M this year. They subsequently discuss medtech acquisition multiples.17:24–19:28 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The conversation transitions smoothly into the standard Famous Five lightning round, featuring an emotional reflection by Brad on his late father's aerospace engineering legacy.1:33–5:03 · Guest teaching 6/10 Introducing Founder Brad Smith and BioWave Nathan asks foundational questions about the physical form factor and compares it simplistically to a massage chair. Brad patiently educates him on the neuro-electrical mechanism that blocks pain signals similarly to chemical Novocaine.5:03–7:36 · Guest teaching 4/10 Hardware Pricing and Consumable Electrode Economics Nathan demonstrates strong business acumen by quickly calculating upfront hardware sales alongside recurring consumable electrode revenue across NFL teams. Brad provides specific unit pricing and replacement frequency numbers.7:37–10:00 · Guest teaching 5/10 Market Demographics and Institutional Credibility Brad explains that pro sports accounts serve primarily as marketing credibility while workers' comp and hospitals drive true scale. Nathan probes the $6M pre-revenue fundraising journey, jokingly characterizing early prototype testing on investors' families.10:00–13:52 · Guest teaching 7/10 Scaling Hardware Distribution Across VA Hospitals Nathan reacts skeptically to the concept of a 1,014-needle electrode pad, pressing Brad on why patients would accept it. Brad schools Nathan on the physics of bypassing skin impedance and the lucrative insurance reimbursement economics behind $150 single-use pads.13:52–17:23 · Guest teaching 4/10 Building a National Sales Force and Capital Expansion When Brad attempts to demur on revenue figures citing private company status, Nathan pushes back firmly and secures confirmation that the business will cross $5M this year. They subsequently discuss medtech acquisition multiples.17:24–19:28 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The conversation transitions smoothly into the standard Famous Five lightning round, featuring an emotional reflection by Brad on his late father's aerospace engineering legacy.1:33–5:03 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Founder Brad Smith and BioWave Nathan asks foundational questions about the physical form factor and compares it simplistically to a massage chair. Brad patiently educates him on the neuro-electrical mechanism that blocks pain signals similarly to chemical Novocaine.5:03–7:36 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Hardware Pricing and Consumable Electrode Economics Nathan demonstrates strong business acumen by quickly calculating upfront hardware sales alongside recurring consumable electrode revenue across NFL teams. Brad provides specific unit pricing and replacement frequency numbers.7:37–10:00 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Market Demographics and Institutional Credibility Brad explains that pro sports accounts serve primarily as marketing credibility while workers' comp and hospitals drive true scale. Nathan probes the $6M pre-revenue fundraising journey, jokingly characterizing early prototype testing on investors' families.10:00–13:52 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Scaling Hardware Distribution Across VA Hospitals Nathan reacts skeptically to the concept of a 1,014-needle electrode pad, pressing Brad on why patients would accept it. Brad schools Nathan on the physics of bypassing skin impedance and the lucrative insurance reimbursement economics behind $150 single-use pads.13:52–17:23 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Building a National Sales Force and Capital Expansion When Brad attempts to demur on revenue figures citing private company status, Nathan pushes back firmly and secures confirmation that the business will cross $5M this year. They subsequently discuss medtech acquisition multiples.17:24–19:28 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The conversation transitions smoothly into the standard Famous Five lightning round, featuring an emotional reflection by Brad on his late father's aerospace engineering legacy.1:33–5:03 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Founder Brad Smith and BioWave Nathan asks foundational questions about the physical form factor and compares it simplistically to a massage chair. Brad patiently educates him on the neuro-electrical mechanism that blocks pain signals similarly to chemical Novocaine.5:03–7:36 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Hardware Pricing and Consumable Electrode Economics Nathan demonstrates strong business acumen by quickly calculating upfront hardware sales alongside recurring consumable electrode revenue across NFL teams. Brad provides specific unit pricing and replacement frequency numbers.7:37–10:00 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Market Demographics and Institutional Credibility Brad explains that pro sports accounts serve primarily as marketing credibility while workers' comp and hospitals drive true scale. Nathan probes the $6M pre-revenue fundraising journey, jokingly characterizing early prototype testing on investors' families.10:00–13:52 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Scaling Hardware Distribution Across VA Hospitals Nathan reacts skeptically to the concept of a 1,014-needle electrode pad, pressing Brad on why patients would accept it. Brad schools Nathan on the physics of bypassing skin impedance and the lucrative insurance reimbursement economics behind $150 single-use pads.13:52–17:23 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Building a National Sales Force and Capital Expansion When Brad attempts to demur on revenue figures citing private company status, Nathan pushes back firmly and secures confirmation that the business will cross $5M this year. They subsequently discuss medtech acquisition multiples.17:24–19:28 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The conversation transitions smoothly into the standard Famous Five lightning round, featuring an emotional reflection by Brad on his late father's aerospace engineering legacy.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 73% · guest 27%0:00 · Nathan 73% · guest 27%3:00 · Nathan 25.8% · guest 74.2%3:00 · Nathan 25.8% · guest 74.2%6:00 · Nathan 35.6% · guest 64.4%6:00 · Nathan 35.6% · guest 64.4%9:00 · Nathan 35.6% · guest 64.4%9:00 · Nathan 35.6% · guest 64.4%12:00 · Nathan 28.1% · guest 71.9%12:00 · Nathan 28.1% · guest 71.9%15:00 · Nathan 32.2% · guest 67.8%15:00 · Nathan 32.2% · guest 67.8%18:00 · Nathan 61.5% · guest 38.5%18:00 · Nathan 61.5% · guest 38.5%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 11:59 Defending the 1,014 microneedles against skepticism

Brad rejects Nathan's framing that over a thousand needles sounds painful and unappealing, asserting it feels like Velcro and provides superior clinical relief.

Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 15:31 Pressing past private company revenue deflection

Nathan refuses to let Brad hide behind being privately held, restructuring the question into broad ranges until Brad confirms BioWave will surpass $5 million.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 12:15 Economics of single-use percutaneous microneedles

Brad thoroughly educates Nathan on how microneedles bypass skin electrical impedance and enable a high-margin $150 single-use model reimbursed by insurance at $450.

Nathan holds their own ▶ 6:56 Real-time calculation of franchise customer value

Nathan instantly synthesizes hardware unit costs and consumable pad burn rates into an accurate total contract value calculation for pro sports teams.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Founder Brad Smith and BioWave 3612 Nathan asks foundational questions about the physical form factor and compares it simplistically to a massage chair. Brad patiently educates him on the neuro-electrical mechanism that blocks pain signals similarly to chemical Novocaine.
Hardware Pricing and Consumable Electrode Economics 6412 Nathan demonstrates strong business acumen by quickly calculating upfront hardware sales alongside recurring consumable electrode revenue across NFL teams. Brad provides specific unit pricing and replacement frequency numbers.
Market Demographics and Institutional Credibility 4513 Brad explains that pro sports accounts serve primarily as marketing credibility while workers' comp and hospitals drive true scale. Nathan probes the $6M pre-revenue fundraising journey, jokingly characterizing early prototype testing on investors' families.
Scaling Hardware Distribution Across VA Hospitals 6735 Nathan reacts skeptically to the concept of a 1,014-needle electrode pad, pressing Brad on why patients would accept it. Brad schools Nathan on the physics of bypassing skin impedance and the lucrative insurance reimbursement economics behind $150 single-use pads.
Building a National Sales Force and Capital Expansion 6436 When Brad attempts to demur on revenue figures citing private company status, Nathan pushes back firmly and secures confirmation that the business will cross $5M this year. They subsequently discuss medtech acquisition multiples.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 2101 The conversation transitions smoothly into the standard Famous Five lightning round, featuring an emotional reflection by Brad on his late father's aerospace engineering legacy.

Statements from this episode (12)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
BioWave claims 30 of 32 NFL teams use its device
“Well, we have 30 or 32 NFL teams, so I could pick any team.”
Brad Smith Aug 23, 2018 ▶ 2:09
Assertion Partly supported
BioWave Charges $3,500 for Pro Unit and $895 for Home Device
“The pro unit is 3500 dollars, and our home prescription unit is 895 dollars.”
Brad Smith Aug 23, 2018 ▶ 5:06
Assertion Supported
BioWave Electrode Pads Cost $15 and Are Reusable 10 Times
“15 dollars for this pair. And they can be reused about 10 times.”
Brad Smith Aug 23, 2018 ▶ 6:32
Assertion Not checkable as stated
BioWave works with 24 NBA and 24 MLB teams
“So, but the, I would tell you the, in professional sports, and we have 24 NBA teams, 24 major league baseball teams, and other sports and whatnot, the NFL probably is our most profitable, because they have more players on a team”
Brad Smith Aug 23, 2018 ▶ 7:59
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Injured pro athletes order BioWave through workers' comp
“And when players get hurt, they order these through workers' compensation, and workers' compensation pays for it.”
Brad Smith Aug 23, 2018 ▶ 8:13
Disclosure
Smith: BioWave Raised About $6M Pre-Revenue from Angels and VC
“About six million I raised from both angel investors and a venture capital investor.”
Brad Smith Aug 23, 2018 ▶ 9:05
Assertion Not checkable as stated
BioWave has sold between 5,000 and 6,000 total units since 2007
“No, less, like, right, five, 6000 in that range.”
Brad Smith Aug 23, 2018 ▶ 10:12
Disclosure
BioWave gets 95% of clinic market revenue from disposable electrodes
“95% of the revenue in that market we're making from the sale of those percutaneous electrodes Even though we're selling the 3500 dollar device as well, that's much more of a disposable driven revenue stream.”
Brad Smith Aug 23, 2018 ▶ 12:54
Disclosure
BioWave operates with 16 full-time employees
“16.”
Brad Smith Aug 23, 2018 ▶ 13:58
Disclosure
BioWave has over 70 national distributors selling to clinics and VA hospitals
“We have, in addition to our inside sales here, we've got over 70 distributors nationally selling to pain and spine clinics and also to VA hospitals.”
Brad Smith Aug 23, 2018 ▶ 14:42
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Smith: BioWave doubled its revenue in 2017 compared to 2016
“In 2017, we did two X the revenue over 2016”
Brad Smith Aug 23, 2018 ▶ 15:31
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Smith: BioWave will surpass $5 million in revenue in 2018
“No, this year we'll be north of that.”
Brad Smith Aug 23, 2018 ▶ 16:07
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