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Sep 27, 2018 · 19m · top-founders

1160 Convoy, The Uber for Trucking, Charges Avg $4/mile on 100 mile trip, Takes Less Than 20% Per Unit Shipped

Dan Lewis · 10m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs Podcast, host Nathan Latka interviews Convoy co-founder and CEO Dan Lewis about modernizing the freight industry through digital brokerage, automated load matching, and driver-focused economics. Lewis breaks down Convoy's rapid revenue scale, pricing models, and strategic insights gained from high-profile backers like Reid Hoffman and Jeff Bezos.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 37% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.3 Guest teaching 3.5 Guest disagreement 1.3 Nathan pushing back 3.0
05100:0010:001:56–5:23 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Overview of Convoy's Model and Early Customers Nathan asks introductory questions about Convoy's brokerage model and early customers, framing cohort growth effectively. Dan provides straightforward, collaborative explanations of freight units and customer adoption.5:23–8:58 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Driving Cost Reductions Through Smart Matching Nathan probes whether optimization happens at the human driver level or the vehicle equipment level. Dan clarifies that while equipment is standardized, matching driver behavioral patterns and generating backhauls is where real efficiency occurs.9:02–12:50 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Sponsor Break: Monday.com Project Management Following an ad break, Nathan asks where capital is spent and compares Convoy's CAC to Uber's driver onboarding costs. Dan educates Nathan on why freight is structurally different from rideshare because truckers are already full-time operators rather than newly recruited supply.12:51–15:00 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Pricing Models, Per-Mile Rates, and Take Rate Nathan drills down on per-mile pricing and tries to get Dan to reveal Convoy's exact take rate. Dan discloses industry margins of 18-20% and claims Convoy operates profitably under that rate while politely declining to reveal the exact cut.15:01–18:01 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Jeff Bezos' Investment and Solving 'Evergreen Problems' Nathan tests whether Jeff Bezos invested to defensively gain market intelligence and asks directly if Convoy is in acquisition talks. Dan firmly rejects the information-gathering premise and outlines his strategy around solving Amazon-style evergreen customer problems.18:01–19:04 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Scale, Weekly Revenue, and Operational Milestones Nathan presses for current volume, loads, and weekly revenue figures. Dan shares top-line metrics including millions in weekly revenue and thousands of monthly active trucking companies before Nathan summarizes the interview.1:56–5:23 · Guest teaching 2/10 Overview of Convoy's Model and Early Customers Nathan asks introductory questions about Convoy's brokerage model and early customers, framing cohort growth effectively. Dan provides straightforward, collaborative explanations of freight units and customer adoption.5:23–8:58 · Guest teaching 4/10 Driving Cost Reductions Through Smart Matching Nathan probes whether optimization happens at the human driver level or the vehicle equipment level. Dan clarifies that while equipment is standardized, matching driver behavioral patterns and generating backhauls is where real efficiency occurs.9:02–12:50 · Guest teaching 6/10 Sponsor Break: Monday.com Project Management Following an ad break, Nathan asks where capital is spent and compares Convoy's CAC to Uber's driver onboarding costs. Dan educates Nathan on why freight is structurally different from rideshare because truckers are already full-time operators rather than newly recruited supply.12:51–15:00 · Guest teaching 3/10 Pricing Models, Per-Mile Rates, and Take Rate Nathan drills down on per-mile pricing and tries to get Dan to reveal Convoy's exact take rate. Dan discloses industry margins of 18-20% and claims Convoy operates profitably under that rate while politely declining to reveal the exact cut.15:01–18:01 · Guest teaching 4/10 Jeff Bezos' Investment and Solving 'Evergreen Problems' Nathan tests whether Jeff Bezos invested to defensively gain market intelligence and asks directly if Convoy is in acquisition talks. Dan firmly rejects the information-gathering premise and outlines his strategy around solving Amazon-style evergreen customer problems.18:01–19:04 · Guest teaching 2/10 Scale, Weekly Revenue, and Operational Milestones Nathan presses for current volume, loads, and weekly revenue figures. Dan shares top-line metrics including millions in weekly revenue and thousands of monthly active trucking companies before Nathan summarizes the interview.1:56–5:23 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Overview of Convoy's Model and Early Customers Nathan asks introductory questions about Convoy's brokerage model and early customers, framing cohort growth effectively. Dan provides straightforward, collaborative explanations of freight units and customer adoption.5:23–8:58 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Driving Cost Reductions Through Smart Matching Nathan probes whether optimization happens at the human driver level or the vehicle equipment level. Dan clarifies that while equipment is standardized, matching driver behavioral patterns and generating backhauls is where real efficiency occurs.9:02–12:50 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sponsor Break: Monday.com Project Management Following an ad break, Nathan asks where capital is spent and compares Convoy's CAC to Uber's driver onboarding costs. Dan educates Nathan on why freight is structurally different from rideshare because truckers are already full-time operators rather than newly recruited supply.12:51–15:00 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Pricing Models, Per-Mile Rates, and Take Rate Nathan drills down on per-mile pricing and tries to get Dan to reveal Convoy's exact take rate. Dan discloses industry margins of 18-20% and claims Convoy operates profitably under that rate while politely declining to reveal the exact cut.15:01–18:01 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Jeff Bezos' Investment and Solving 'Evergreen Problems' Nathan tests whether Jeff Bezos invested to defensively gain market intelligence and asks directly if Convoy is in acquisition talks. Dan firmly rejects the information-gathering premise and outlines his strategy around solving Amazon-style evergreen customer problems.18:01–19:04 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Scale, Weekly Revenue, and Operational Milestones Nathan presses for current volume, loads, and weekly revenue figures. Dan shares top-line metrics including millions in weekly revenue and thousands of monthly active trucking companies before Nathan summarizes the interview.1:56–5:23 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Overview of Convoy's Model and Early Customers Nathan asks introductory questions about Convoy's brokerage model and early customers, framing cohort growth effectively. Dan provides straightforward, collaborative explanations of freight units and customer adoption.5:23–8:58 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Driving Cost Reductions Through Smart Matching Nathan probes whether optimization happens at the human driver level or the vehicle equipment level. Dan clarifies that while equipment is standardized, matching driver behavioral patterns and generating backhauls is where real efficiency occurs.9:02–12:50 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Sponsor Break: Monday.com Project Management Following an ad break, Nathan asks where capital is spent and compares Convoy's CAC to Uber's driver onboarding costs. Dan educates Nathan on why freight is structurally different from rideshare because truckers are already full-time operators rather than newly recruited supply.12:51–15:00 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Pricing Models, Per-Mile Rates, and Take Rate Nathan drills down on per-mile pricing and tries to get Dan to reveal Convoy's exact take rate. Dan discloses industry margins of 18-20% and claims Convoy operates profitably under that rate while politely declining to reveal the exact cut.15:01–18:01 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Jeff Bezos' Investment and Solving 'Evergreen Problems' Nathan tests whether Jeff Bezos invested to defensively gain market intelligence and asks directly if Convoy is in acquisition talks. Dan firmly rejects the information-gathering premise and outlines his strategy around solving Amazon-style evergreen customer problems.18:01–19:04 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Scale, Weekly Revenue, and Operational Milestones Nathan presses for current volume, loads, and weekly revenue figures. Dan shares top-line metrics including millions in weekly revenue and thousands of monthly active trucking companies before Nathan summarizes the interview.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 63.1% · guest 36.9%0:00 · Nathan 63.1% · guest 36.9%3:00 · Nathan 27.4% · guest 72.6%3:00 · Nathan 27.4% · guest 72.6%6:00 · Nathan 27% · guest 73%6:00 · Nathan 27% · guest 73%9:00 · Nathan 64.3% · guest 35.7%9:00 · Nathan 64.3% · guest 35.7%12:00 · Nathan 16.5% · guest 83.5%12:00 · Nathan 16.5% · guest 83.5%15:00 · Nathan 13.3% · guest 86.7%15:00 · Nathan 13.3% · guest 86.7%18:00 · Nathan 57.2% · guest 42.8%18:00 · Nathan 57.2% · guest 42.8%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 15:20 Dismissing Amazon espionage thesis

Dan immediately shuts down Nathan's provocative suggestion that Jeff Bezos invested in Convoy just to learn from them and siphon proprietary operational data.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 16:56 Direct acquisition questioning

Nathan bluntly challenges Dan on whether Convoy is currently engaged in active acquisition talks with Amazon or Uber.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:15 Contrasting Uber and freight driver acquisition

Dan breaks down why Convoy does not need the massive driver acquisition subsidies of Uber and Lyft because commercial truck drivers already exist as full-time professional operators.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:51 Dissecting per-mile pricing economics

Nathan establishes clear domain grounding by immediately converting a hypothetical 100-mile trip into per-mile cost benchmarks and take-rate dynamics.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Overview of Convoy's Model and Early Customers 4201 Nathan asks introductory questions about Convoy's brokerage model and early customers, framing cohort growth effectively. Dan provides straightforward, collaborative explanations of freight units and customer adoption.
Driving Cost Reductions Through Smart Matching 4413 Nathan probes whether optimization happens at the human driver level or the vehicle equipment level. Dan clarifies that while equipment is standardized, matching driver behavioral patterns and generating backhauls is where real efficiency occurs.
Sponsor Break: Monday.com Project Management 4612 Following an ad break, Nathan asks where capital is spent and compares Convoy's CAC to Uber's driver onboarding costs. Dan educates Nathan on why freight is structurally different from rideshare because truckers are already full-time operators rather than newly recruited supply.
Pricing Models, Per-Mile Rates, and Take Rate 5324 Nathan drills down on per-mile pricing and tries to get Dan to reveal Convoy's exact take rate. Dan discloses industry margins of 18-20% and claims Convoy operates profitably under that rate while politely declining to reveal the exact cut.
Jeff Bezos' Investment and Solving 'Evergreen Problems' 5435 Nathan tests whether Jeff Bezos invested to defensively gain market intelligence and asks directly if Convoy is in acquisition talks. Dan firmly rejects the information-gathering premise and outlines his strategy around solving Amazon-style evergreen customer problems.
Scale, Weekly Revenue, and Operational Milestones 4213 Nathan presses for current volume, loads, and weekly revenue figures. Dan shares top-line metrics including millions in weekly revenue and thousands of monthly active trucking companies before Nathan summarizes the interview.

Statements from this episode (13)

Assertion Supported
Average US small trucking company operates two to three trucks
“The average one has two, three trucks.”
Dan Lewis Sep 27, 2018 ▶ 2:29
Disclosure
Convoy's key operational metrics: volume, market density, and automation percentage
“The key metrics for us are thinking about how much freight we're moving how much for removing in each of our markets, because we want to build healthy, you know, dense networks as we build this business out. And what percentage of the time is the work is the f…”
Dan Lewis Sep 27, 2018 ▶ 3:55
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Convoy lowers prices by reducing broker costs and using matching technology
“It does. And over time it allows us to drive the price down even more. We can take out some of the operating costs of running a brokerage, which makes it so we can run a little bit more efficiently. We can also find more convenient trucks because we can see al…”
Dan Lewis Sep 27, 2018 ▶ 5:37
Disclosure
Convoy primarily partners with small fleets of one to four trucks
“The relationships that we have are with the, you know, small trucking companies. Many of them own their own trucks. So it's one, two, three, four trucks in a small business. And that's who we serve. And that's who we partner with.”
Dan Lewis Sep 27, 2018 ▶ 6:23
Disclosure
Convoy automatically generates round trips and multi-stop tours for drivers
“We actually have things that automatically generate round trips and back hauls for them. So if they have a freight going one way from convoy, we'll automatically find freight going back the other way. We'll create tours, multiple stop jobs things like that tha…”
Dan Lewis Sep 27, 2018 ▶ 7:38
Insight
Trucking platforms face lower supply acquisition costs than Uber and Lyft
“They said, let's take people that don't do this as their full-time job and get them to come become drivers and build up a new supply of drivers. So if you're trying to get someone to leave their old job or whatever they were doing to make money before and star…”
Dan Lewis Sep 27, 2018 ▶ 11:39
Assertion Partly supported
Traditional freight brokerage industry take rate averages 18% to 20%
“I can tell you that the industry rate today is about 20%, 18 to 20%.”
Dan Lewis Sep 27, 2018 ▶ 13:45
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Convoy operates healthily below the industry standard 18% to 20% take rate
“Our business model can be healthy at a lower percentage.”
Dan Lewis Sep 27, 2018 ▶ 13:50
Opinion
Reid Hoffman excels at refocusing Convoy's board on major long-term outcomes
“You know, I think what he's been really good at is I'll call it breaking through a conversation where we're kind of focusing in on something, right? Maybe debating some nuances of something, exactly how much we should raise, when we should raise again you know…”
Dan Lewis Sep 27, 2018 ▶ 14:12
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Amazon receives no data or operational learnings from Convoy
“Yeah, I can't comment on Amazon's plans, but it's certainly not the case where they're learning or getting data from Convoy. There's no relationship like that.”
Dan Lewis Sep 27, 2018 ▶ 15:21
Assertion Contradicted
Most commercial truck drivers did not own smartphones five years ago
“It's drivers didn't have, most drivers didn't have smartphones five years ago.”
Dan Lewis Sep 27, 2018 ▶ 17:24
Disclosure
Convoy has 5,000 to 10,000 active trucking companies on platform monthly
“We have you know, five, 10,000 active trucking companies in our platform every month.”
Dan Lewis Sep 27, 2018 ▶ 18:20
Disclosure
Convoy generates millions of dollars in revenue every week
“And we're doing, you know, millions of dollars in revenue every week.”
Dan Lewis Sep 27, 2018 ▶ 18:33
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